Do you think we can discover something new by changing the perspective in this way? — Astorre
From the Eastern perspective, continental philosophy looks quite analytical. — Astorre
But there is no normal way to talk about “being” qua being. When we talk normally, and make our topic “being”, we impose things in the topic that obfuscate and cover up what we are trying to say. — Fire Ologist
My hypothesis focuses on the ontological perception shaped by language and not on the epistemological perception of reality. — Astorre
Direct realism (tables exist independently) and indirect realism (tables in consciousness) concern epistemology - how we know the world — Astorre
and not the ontology of processuality (being as flow) or substantialism (being as essence). — Astorre
That is, saying that considering the expression "Socrates is a philosopher" implies not only a concrete existence ("from Athens"), but also an abstract process ("seeks wisdom"), you remain within substantialism. — Astorre
How can you arrive at an ontological belief without first going through an epistemological process? — RussellA
I am indeed thinking about standard or normal use. It's use in the context of divine revelations may be different, and I wouldn't argue about that - I'm not qualified or competent to do that. But I also wanted to point out that there is at least one revelation story in the Bible that does not seem to me to fit the description that @Punshhh gives. I hope they feel inspired to comment.No, I was specifically responding to Punshhh’s bringing up the sense of mystical witnessing; I believe you’re thinking of the other use, like being a witness to a murder. There is the religious sense also of “bearing witness”, which, even if you couldn’t testify like at trial about the murder, Job and Arjuna could, as it is in this sense, be the testimony of having “felt” or “witnessed” “the power of” God. — Antony Nickles
I recognize that "seeing as aspect" is inherent in perception. What's bothering me is that as aspect is always an aspect of something. Wittgenstein's presentation of this seems to me to obscure that point. The duck-rabbit can be seen in two ways. But there is a third way, which is neutral between those intepretations and allows us to say that those two interpretations are interpretations of the same picture. I mean the description of the picture as a collection of marks on paper.I am thinking of perceiving in its sense of regarding something in a way (like a person as pitiable), or becoming aware of a new aspect of it, — Antony Nickles
We understand ‘same picture’ by seeing it as ‘same picture’. Or as you put it, by seeing something as ‘marks on paper’. The notion of marks on paper is no less in need of interpretation than seeing something as a duck or a rabbit. There is pre-interpretive, pre-conceptual perception.I recognize that "seeing as aspect" is inherent in perception. What's bothering me is that as aspect is always an aspect of something. Wittgenstein's presentation of this seems to me to obscure that point. The duck-rabbit can be seen in two ways. But there is a third way, which is neutral between those intepretations and allows us to say that those two interpretations are interpretations of the same picture. I mean the description of the picture as a collection of marks on paper — Ludwig V
Heidegger would reject the framing of the question, because it presupposes a priority of epistemology over ontology. — Joshs
I exist within my own reality, whatever that reality is. It is logically impossible to discover what exists outside my own reality using knowledge that is part of my own reality.
Perhaps this is "Dasein".
This means that I am limited to thinking about the ontology of my own reality, and the process of thinking about my own reality is epistemological. — RussellA
What I was thinking of is that there is the ability (in us) for us to witness something inconceivable to us, which we are entirely unable to comprehend. It may be in our unconscious, or the body, that records an imprint of what was witnessed, while our mind, alters it to something more manageable.I am indeed thinking about standard or normal use. It's use in the context of divine revelations may be different,
There is also the issue of presence (communion) and grace (a kind of hosting by an angelic being).Ezekiel 10; Their faces looked like this: Each of the four had the face of a human being, and on the right side each had the face of a lion, and on the left the face of an ox; each also had the face of an eagle. 11 Such were their faces. They each had two wings spreading out upward, each wing touching that of the creature on either side; and each had two other wings covering its body. 12 Each one went straight ahead. Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, without turning as they went. 13 The appearance of the living creatures was like burning coals of fire or like torches. Fire moved back and forth among the creatures; it was bright, and lightning flashed out of it. 14 The creatures sped back and forth like flashes of lightning.
15 As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the ground beside each creature with its four faces. 16 This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like topaz, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. 17 As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the creatures faced; the wheels did not change direction as the creatures went. 18 Their rims were high and awesome, and all four rims were full of eyes all around.
For Heidegger the ontological is something like a condition of possibility, but it is not transcendental in Kant’s sense. Think of it as a stance or perspective, the Being of a being in terms of its way of being, not what a being ‘is’ but how it is. These stances do not precede the existence of the world, they are what it means to exist. To exist is to open up a stance. — Joshs
I exist within my own reality, whatever that reality is. It is logically impossible to discover what exists outside my own reality using knowledge that is part of my own reality. — RussellA
Then, in this case, when I am thinking about my own reality, which comes first, epistemology or ontology. — RussellA
It is logically impossible to discover what exists outside my own reality using knowledge that is part of my own reality — RussellA
What is the sound of one hand clapping?If I see the colour red, is it possible for me to directly see the cause of my seeing the colour red.
If I don't know something, is it possible for me to decide to search for it.
If there is another reality outside my own reality, can I ever discover it.
I exist within my own reality, whatever that reality is. It is logically impossible to discover what exists outside my own reality using knowledge that is part of my own reality.
I agree, the way I see it is like we are fellow travellers, continually on a journey. What we see are things in motion. If the motion were to stop, there would be nothing there. The things are in the motion itself.to think of an object not as a completed entity, but as a process.
It is dynamic and eventful. — Astorre
seeing as aspect" is inherent in perception. …The duck-rabbit can be seen in two ways. But there is a third way, which is neutral between those intepretations and allows us to say that those two interpretations are interpretations of the same picture. I mean the description of the picture as a collection of marks on paper. — Ludwig V
Incidentally I might mention that 'substance' in philosophy is more properly 'substantia', 'the bearer of predicates', than 'substance' 'a material with uniform properties'. The philosophical term 'substance' is actually a different word than the English 'substance'. Of course this is common knowledge to students of philosophy but it doesn't hurt to repeat it from time to time. — Wayfarer
Your "own reality" is not reality itself, but your idea of it...We invent tools to expand the boundaries of the senses — Astorre
↪Astorre The Latin 'substantia' was used as the translation for the Greek 'ouisia'. But 'ouisia' is a form of the Greek verb 'to be', which has very different implications than what 'substance' conveys. See this heading. It is directly connected to the OP in my opinion. — Wayfarer
Mary knows that in the future she will know new things, even though she doesn't know what these new things will be. — RussellA
In fact, no one can know if there is reality itself of which one's own reality is just a part. — RussellA
. According to the main idea of my work, language itself - through grammatical structure and, in particular, the copula - inclines us to such fixation. — Astorre
Let's take phenomenology, returning to the things themselves as they are given. The method is good, but it essentially records the world in new frames.. Phenomenology allows us to clear our judgments from previous experience. Cleared. And again took a picture. — Astorre
Certainly the world that is in being for me, the world about which I have always had ideas and spoken about meaningfully, has meaning and is accepted as valid by me because of my own apperceptive performances because of these experiences that run their course and are combined precisely in those performances—as well as other functions of consciousness, such as thinking. But is it not a piece of foolishness to suppose that world has being because of some performance of mine? Clearly, I must make my formulation more precise. In my Ego there is formed, from out of the proper sources of transcendental passivity and activity, my “representation of the world, ” my “picture of the world, ” whereas outside of me, naturally enough, there is the world itself. But is this really a good way of putting it? Does this talk about outer and inner, if it makes any sense at all, receive its meaning from anywhere else than from my formation and my preservation of meaning? Should I forget that the totality of everything that I can ever think of as in being resides within the universal realm of consciousness, within my realm, that of the Ego, and indeed within what is for me real or possible?” (Husserl, Phenomenology and Anthropology
It is not as clear cut as that. Some people know a little more than that and can infer a little more again, some can intuit this. Also some can seek guidance, some can develop wisdom, some can learn to interpret ancient teachings and mythologies and gain insight. Others will be taught.In fact, no one can know if there is reality itself of which one's own reality is just a part.
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