What is the mind to you? The mind, to me, is a substance with the ability to experience and cause. The mind cannot be certainly an emergent thing, given my definition of it. — MoK

Here’s the definition of mind from Wikipedia. It’s similar to other ones I found on the web.

The mind is that which thinks, feels, perceives, imagines, remembers, and wills. It covers the totality of mental phenomena, including both conscious processes, through which an individual is aware of external and internal circumstances, and unconscious processes, which can influence an individual without intention or awareness.

It seems as though you want to use a non-standard meaning for the word. That’s your prerogative I guess, but it makes it hard to have a discussion with you.

"The mind is that which thinks, feels, perceives, imagines, remembers, and wills."
For thinking, you at least need two minds, so-called the conscious mind and the subconscious mind. Feelings belong to the subconscious mind, as the conscious mind has a limited memory. Both the conscious and the subconscious mind experience different sorts of things. Imagination is a process with the aim of creating a new idea. The imagination is the main duty of the conscious mind. Both the conscious mind and the subconscious mind are involved in recalling.

"The mind is that which thinks, feels, perceives, imagines, remembers, and wills."
For thinking, you at least need two minds, so-called the conscious mind and the subconscious mind. Feelings belong to the subconscious mind, as the conscious mind has a limited memory. Both the conscious and the subconscious mind experience different sorts of things. Imagination is a process with the aim of creating a new idea. The imagination is the main duty of the conscious mind. Both the conscious mind and the subconscious mind are involved in recalling. — MoK

I don't think our minds feel. The body feels, and our mind makes us aware of the feeling.

I think our subconscious fills our consciousness with thoughts, and this is not always helpful because it can be working with a memory that is harmful and draws a person back to a past that is not beneficial to the present. This is why people see a psychiatrist.

The imagination works very well while a person is sleeping. We might or might not wake aware of our dreams.

I don't think our minds feel. The body feels, and our mind makes us aware of the feeling. — Athena

Feeling is a sort of experience, so that is the mind that experiences that sort of Qualia, so-called feeling.

I think our subconscious fills our consciousness with thoughts — Athena

The subconscious mind constantly fills the memory of the conscious mind with ideas, feelings, etc.

and this is not always helpful because it can be working with a memory that is harmful and draws a person back to a past that is not beneficial to the present. This is why people see a psychiatrist. — Athena

Correct.

The singularity has always existed. It is our way of thinking that makes us aware of it or prevents us from being aware of it.

Feeling is a sort of experience, so that is the mind that experiences that sort of Qualia, so-called feeling. — MoK

Can you point to the spot in the brain that feels? I assume it is one spot you are talking about, but you could mean the whole brain feels the broken toe and the loss of a child. Exactly where is the feeling in the brain? I have been a little fanatic about this for many years. We can not put our brains in a vat and experience life because our brains do not feel. We need bodies to feel, and for this reason, computers can not have the judgment of humans. However, with quantum computers, the information input may be so similar to brains with bodies that the difference may not be that great. :nerd: :lol: I could get a headache, just thinking about all this stuff.

The mind is irreducible yet can be omnipresent. I have never had an omnipresent experience, but people who meditate deeply report such an experience.

Exactly where is the feeling in the brain? — Athena

I just wanted to bring to your attention:
The feeling of your body is not truly the feeling of your body, but rather the feeling of your brain simulating it. In principle, it is possible to separate your body from your brain, and yet still feel embodied because the "cortical homunculus" in your brain, particularly the "sensory homunculus" or "somatosensory cortex", would remain active. This is why amputees can still sense their missing limbs and even experience pain in them. It is also possible, in principle, to retain your body but remove the cortical homonculus that simulates it. This would have the effect of making you feel disembodied, even though your body remains fully intact.

I just wanted to bring to your attention:
The feeling of your body is not truly the feeling of your body, but rather the feeling of your brain simulating it. In principle, it is possible to separate your body from your brain, and yet still feel embodied because the "cortical homunculus" in your brain, particularly the "sensory homunculus" or "somatosensory cortex", would remain active. This is why amputees can still sense their missing limbs and even experience pain in them. It is also possible, in principle, to retain your body but remove the cortical homonculus that simulates it. This would have the effect of making you feel disembodied, even though your body remains fully intact. — punos

Our disageement might be semantics. The brain processes pain messages but does not feel pain.

Yes, I know of phantom pain, and I think you made an excellent argument. I am going to have to learn more and ponder it all. But even with phantom pain, the pain is not felt in the brain.

Interestingly, the brain can be tricked into stopping the pain loop, which has psychological components. Acupuncture is one way to break the pain loop.

It sure would be easier to manage this information with AI. Is using a link to an AI explanation acceptable? Here is a link that may help us understand phantom pain and pain looping. https://www.google.com/search?q=pain+loops+and+accupuncture&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS990US990&oq=pain+loops+and+accupuncture&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIGCAQQIRgKMgcIBRAhGJ8FMgcIBhAhGJ8FMgcIBxAhGJ8FMgcICBAhGJ8FMgcICRAhGJ8F0gEKMTQ4NThqMGoxNagCDLACAfEFM-y8p0BGImXxBTPsvKdARiJl&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Our bodies have two pain pathways. Acupuncture was rejected in the US until the second pathway was figured out. Acupuncture alters how the brain processes pain. Do we care about this difference?
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+is+acupuncture+pain+path+different+from+physical+pain+path&sca_esv=3c5abf70b36f931c&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS990US990&sxsrf=AE3TifMJqyTIlREfJad7mLqHW2qZKXXfCQ%3A1757697771277&ei=61bEaNTdELGU0PEP34TmsAI&oq=how+is+acupuncture+pain+path+different+from+&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiLGhvdyBpcyBhY3VwdW5jdHVyZSBwYWluIHBhdGggZGlmZmVyZW50IGZyb20gKgIIAjIFECEYoAEyBRAhGKABMgUQIRigATIFECEYoAEyBRAhGKABSITnAVCXCFjkzgFwAngBkAEAmAFuoAGuGKoBBTIwLjEzuAEByAEA-AEBmAIioAKwGcICChAjGIAEGCcYigXCAgsQABiABBiGAxiKBcICCBAAGIAEGKIEwgIIEAAYogQYiQXCAgYQABgWGB7CAgUQABiABMICBRAhGKsCwgIFECEYnwWYAwCIBgGSBwUxOS4xNaAH7ZcCsgcFMTguMTW4B6wZwgcJMC4xOC4xNS4xyAdo&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

Chronic pain can lead to changes in the brain’s structure and function, and this might explain pain looping and phantom pain. However, even with phantom pain, it is not a sensation of pain in the brain.
The brain wrongly thinks the pain is coming from the missing limb.

The brain processes pain messages but does not feel pain. — Athena

Why would the brain need to process pain messages? What would happen if the brain did not process the pain messages?

But even with phantom pain, the pain is not felt in the brain. — Athena

The reason phantom pain occurs is because the sensorimotor region of the brain responsible for the missing body part is deprived of input from the missing limb. When the motor centers attempt to move the absent limb, the nerve signals never reach their destination, and the feedback system to the sensory centers is disrupted. This breakdown in the sensory-motor circuit results in pain, because the motor center continues to send increasingly stronger signals to the missing limb but never receives the feedback it requires. In other words, that small part of the brain is essentially screaming and straining to move the lost body part, but without success. This creates a highly distressing situation within that particular area of the brain.

Now, if a brain surgeon were to remove the sensorimotor region of the brain responsible for that body part, the phantom pain would cease to even be possible.

Acupuncture is a method of regulating or modulating nerve signals. By stimulating nerves in specific areas and in specific ways, it is possible to influence how the body functions through those neural pathways. Transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation (TENS) works in a similar way, reducing or eliminating pain by using electricity to interrupt pain signals, and the same with electroacupuncture.

However, even with phantom pain, it is not a sensation of pain in the brain.
The brain wrongly thinks the pain is coming from the missing limb. — Athena

If you disagree, then answer this question: if the pain is not in the missing limb, but also not in the brain, where exactly is the pain felt?

Correct. We/the conscious minds, are living in a simulation.

Your guess is as good as mine. — 180 Proof

Guesswork? GPT-3 passes the Turing test in 2020. That's almost fait accompli, the rest is history, surely.

["punos;1012650"]

I think discussion of how the brain works is part of the singularity subject, but not exactly arguing our experience of pain and where that pain is felt. However, if we can feel pain in a missing limb, then maybe that proves we can exist without a body?

I am not clear about what this thread's notion of singularity is. I was thinking that singularity always existed. You know the Hindu Brahman. Google Hindu and singularity if you don't know what I am talking about and want to know. The rule against using AI is a pain in the ass, and it will not stop the flow of time and the reality of singularity.