Not sure what to make of this yet...

Charlie Kirk and The Hate Speech Algorithm (— Evey Winters · Sep 18, 2025) — jorndoe

Fascinating analysis! I'm also not sure exactly what to make of it, other than that this seems to be a promising methodology and that her general observations of Kirk seem to have an objective basis.

But I'll focus on one statement I think problematic:
"There’s almost no way he wasn’t aware of his impacts during his lifetime."

Of course there's ways he could be unaware! First, it's not something Kirk would have been interested in, so he might not have given it a thought. Alternatively (or in addition), he may have had an point of view that's an idealization of NOS4A2's: free speech absolutism and holding speech blameless no matter how extreme it is. Such a perspective would deny any relationship between one man's speech and another's actions. Arguably, the statistics are evidence against that point of view, but anything short of deductive proof can be rationalized.

So the free speech absolutist makes an exception, when it entails retaliation by his side; a retaliation that's an order of magnitude worse because it entailed explicitly political speech, and threats to misuse the office of the FCC to inflict that punishment*, and threats of expensive lawsuits

If retaliation (in spades), is acceptable, then you should be fine if there were to be counter retaliation from the left. But obviously, you have no principles.

No, I’m pointing out that this is the world that people like Kimmel built. You want censorship you get censorship.

US attorney resigns amid pressure from Trump after sources say he refused to charge NY AG Letitia James

Trump and his Congressional sycophants accused the "Biden Justice Dept" as being "weaponized" against conservatives, on the basis of the fact that Trump was investigated and indicted. By painting it as "Biden's" DOJ, they sought to link Biden to it. It was "Biden's DOJ" only to the extent that he appointed the AG (a former nominee to the Supreme Court respected for his legal acumen) and a few other top positions. There was never one hint of Biden trying to influence any DOJ actions. Biden continued the post-Watergate norm of an independent DOJ. Presidents set priorities (e.g. prioritizing civil rights violations, or prioritizing violations of immigration law), but they have refrained from directing specific investigations or prosecutions.

Based on this false claim that "Biden's DOJ" targeted conservatives and victimized Trump, Trump & Co are explicitly, and unequivocally, politicizing and weaponizing the DOJ.

On a related note: a family member of mine is an FBI agent, stationed in Washington DC. He has spent most of his 15+ years with them in foreign intelligence (specifically not law enforcement, as some agents do). For the past few years, his full time assignment has been on one specific country- one of our biggest rivals in the world. He now has to spend 2 days each week patrolling DC, so he now spends only 60% of his time working intelligence. All for Trump's political theater.

, I’m pointing out that this is the world that people like Kimmel built. You want censorship you get censorship. — NOS4A2

I don't want censorship, but I have a more nuanced view of free speech than you. And I'm not a hypocrite - like you. I do not, and have not, advocated silencing people like Kirk for their speech. I support rebutting that speech, as I do with you. But if Kirk's speech, which clearly exhibits prejudice, is allowable - why wouldn't satire?

Let’s get this out of the way first—do you believe those in power should decide what you can and cannot say?

You answer that, in light of your support for the Trump Administration's threats to ABC.

Personally, I do not think those in power should wield that power to limit free speech. I believe that is likely unconstitutional, but absolutely believe it is wrong.

Of course there's ways he could be unaware! — Relativist

He managed to get rich. I suppose maybe he thought all that luxury just fell at his feet.

On January 5, 2021, the day before the Washington, D.C., protest that led to the January 6 United States Capitol attack, Kirk wrote on Twitter that Turning Point Action and Students for Trump were sending more than 80 "buses of patriots to D.C. to fight for this president".[51][52] A spokesman for Turning Point said that the groups ended up sending seven buses, not 80, with 350 students.[51][53] In the lead-up to the storming, Kirk said he was "getting 500 emails a minute calling for a civil war".[54] Publix heiress Julie Fancelli gave Kirk's organizations $1.25 million to fund the buses to the January 6 event. Kirk also paid $60,000 for Kimberly Guilfoyle to speak at the rally.[55] — Wikipedia

Personally, I do not think those in power should wield that power to limit free speech. I believe that is likely unconstitutional, but absolutely believe it is wrong. — Relativist

As a constitutional matter, the call for a free press is clear. What complicates the present issue is that the FCC was formed by Congress to restrict what enough people found to be offensive. That measure was aimed at certain expressions of profanity and extreme references to individuals and groups. Those limits are subject to changes of sensibility over time but also represent a set of negotiated agreements under constant review.

The elephant and the donkey in the room concern how ownership of the media influences that set of controls. That element also introduces the broader problem of regulation of commercial enterprise.

So, the administration uses some of their power to reduce the limits put in place by Congress and heighten other parts when it serves their political objectives.

U.S. Education Dept. unites conservative groups to create 'patriotic' civics content
^{— Sequoia Carrillo · npr · Sep 17, 2025}

I'm getting some vague 1920s-30s Italy vibes here. Isn't the US education system in need of basic improvements, rather than this?

I was getting 500 emails a minute calling for civil war — Kirk said · Jan 11, 2021

Extremist magnet. Who the senders were (domestic + foreign) might be informative.

Trump is going full totalitarian mode now. The latest outrage is the firing of Erik S. Siebert, a DA who had been told to rake up incriminating evidence on James Comey (previously FBI director), Letitia James (the NY DA who had successfully brought mortgage fraud charges against Trump) and Senator Adam Schiff (Manager of the first Trump impeachment). Apparently Siebert had concluded there was insufficient evidence to bring charges. Trump had Siebert fired, then blasted Pam Bondi in a public social media post, insisting that DOJ find a way to bring charges, more or less 'come hell or high water'. (He's now drafted another lackey, er, lucky attorney to do his dirty work.)

Such White House interference in Dept Justice actions is, of course, almost completely unprecedented and highly irregular to say the least. Trump complained that the two impeachments and five indictments brought against him were all 'based on nothing', so in his (twisted) mind, filing false charges against perceived adversaries is no different (and as usual never mind the actual facts). NY Times coverage (gift link). Rachel Maddow comment.

Extremist magnet. — jorndoe

He was bought, for his ability to speak, and would speak about whatever he was paid to speak about, regardless of whether he had any real belief.

, I'm reminded of this old comment ...

↪Baden Pompey worked out how to use the Roman army to intimidate his way into political power. Julius Caesar adopted his method and worked out how to manipulate popular support; he was defeated by the Senate. Augustus built on the strategy developed by Caesar, sidelining the Senate. The Republic was not overthrown at one blow, but by building on successive successful strategies.

The lesson some will be taking on board now is that fixing numbers in the Senate and popular cult status is insufficient; one also needs to gain control of the judiciary; and fixing numbers of Supremes is insufficient; State courts will also need to be fixed.

But the process for undermining any last semblance of democracy is in place; the oligarchy is becoming explicit. — Banno (Nov 14, 2020)

Hopefully that turns out a bit dramatic, yet the comment seems to have aged too well. The first emperor, Augustus (-27), also told Romans he was the only one who could save Rome, and they believed him, et voilà, imperial cult.

What a dumb equivocation. Are you really such an idiot you cannot tell the difference?

The recent behavior of Trump and MAGA seems to solidify the fact that we’re dealing with a narcissistic dictator wannabe who takes advantage of a crazy christo-fascist cult powered by with a team of actual nazis within his inner circle.

What laws and regulations can battle that if their entire drive is set on a “second coming of christ” delusion? I don’t think people realize how dangerous such a movement can become, especially when they seem to now self-radicalize because of Charlie Kirk.

It also cements that the US is a christian fundamentalistic nation, exactly in the same vein as how we view many Islamic nations, forming laws and values out of whatever skewed idea in their religious delusions they push forward as their primary creed.

I have no doubt that most of the people at the Charlie Kirk event want to burn the rest of the world in holy nuclear fire. We’re witnessing a proper cult getting dragged out from the dark by someone bathing in their love.

And few seems to actually care. :shade:

With all the back-and-forth, how accurate is this?

House Trump has

• disregarded legal process and court decisions, and circumvented/side-stepped law
• concentrated power that should be independent
• replaced specialists with loyalists, including intelligence, military, judicial, science, ...
• threatened media/news, politicians, countries, whoever (submission comes to mind)
• ignored/dismissed scientific consensus
• told a record number of lies or misleading statements (for someone in this position)
• raced ahead with populist or manipulative/exploitive moves
• alienated/back-stabbed supposed allies/friends, and sided with authoritarians

Some are typical authoritarian, and democratic backsliding has been seen.
(By the way, my possibly wrong impression is that personally, Trump isn't particularly racist or homophobic, but some who are have his ear.)

I'll leave Trump accolades to someone else.
Looks like he has maintained support among hard-liners/radicals.

Not to critique, but if one was so adamant and such facts were so self-evident, one could easily have made each bullet point a hyperlink a person just has to click instead of researching themself. The fact I don't even want to, rather I don't have the time to check facts, neither does the average person, I mean, it kind of explains why he gained popularity. People are not intelligent. Not in a free society. Thinking is hard. All I need to do is learn how to dress myself in the morning and do a basic function, any function really, it can be as simple as pushing buttons or pouring coffee, and I get to live a life that a monarch 1,000 years ago could only dream of. I do that, I get to make a living. Anything else is superfluous. That's what the average person thinks. That's how they live. That's who they are.

House Trump has
disregarded legal process and court decisions, and circumvented/side-stepped law
concentrated power that should be independent
replaced specialists with loyalists, including intelligence, military, judicial, science, ...
threatened media/news, politicians, countries, whoever (submission comes to mind)
ignored/dismissed scientific consensus
told a record number of lies or misleading statements (for someone in this position)
raced ahead with populist or manipulative/exploitive moves
alienated/back-stabbed supposed allies/friends, and sided with authoritarians — jorndoe

Since he is still in power and hasn't been removed from power, I guess all of that is legal and aligns perfectly well with the constitution? Right?

This is why he should be removed by force. And since he isn't, we know that the US is broken and does not have a functioning democracy that upholds law and constitution. To say that he is in his right to do whatever he wants is to be an apologist for an authoritarian leader and an authoritarian regime.

There's not really much nuance here.

(By the way, my possibly wrong impression is that personally, Trump isn't particularly racist — jorndoe

Did you miss how he talks about immigrants? Or are you saying that he is too stupid to understand what he is saying if he forward racist remarks from others?

It could very well be that he is too stupid or rather, just don't give a shit about what he says. That anything that can give him the love of his followers will be said, regardless of what it is. I wonder how far he is from relaying an idea of using deadly force against democrats? I mean, if he is too stupid to grasp what he is saying, but he gets love from his followers by saying that, then he could say it. Only his legal team would have to scramble to try and cover it, but if he said something like that, I think he's done for.

Thinking is hard. All I need to do is learn how to dress myself in the morning and do a basic function, any function really, it can be as simple as pushing buttons or pouring coffee, and I get to live a life that a monarch 1,000 years could only dream of. I do that, I get to make a living. Anything else is superfluous. That's what the average person thinks. — Outlander

Yes, and this is why I hate the masses more than the authoritarian leaders. Because that would be like hating a rock for being a rock, there's no point. But the apathy of the people, to ignore fighting for the freedom and good life they have, to defend against those who want to destroy it for their own benefit, that apathetic people are the worst and they deserve the authoritarian boot on their head so they can re-learn what others already know.

Just think of the farmers who voted for Trump, now panicking over rising costs, lost workers to ICE raids, and exports diminishing. They deserve what they voted for, because maybe now they'll learn not to be stupid. Or they'll perish under their own stupidity, either way, normal, thinking people wins. I despise these people; a bunch of spoiled children who whines to their daddy Trump only to end up being left behind when Trump is done with them. Absolutely pathetic.

, apologies, I just figured the thread had fair coverage by now, but it's tediously long, just like the lists out there. Hover, pick some:

False or misleading statements by Donald Trump | List of conspiracy theories promoted by Donald Trump | Donald Trump's conflict with the media (Retaliatory lawsuits and federal government actions) | Targeting of political opponents and civil society under the second Trump administration | In Assault on Free Speech, Trump Targets Speech He Hates | The Right Takes Aim at Wikipedia | Donald Trump judicial appointment controversies | Government hiring and personnel of Donald Trump | Robert F. Kennedy Jr. | Inspectors general removed or fired by Donald Trump | Trump publicly urges US Justice Department to charge his enemies | Legal affairs of the second Trump presidency | U.S. Democratic Backsliding in Comparative Perspective | US democracy under siege | Trump sides with Putin over U.S. intelligence during remarkable press conference in Helsinki | The Cipher Brief: Report for Tuesday, June 17, 2025 | Under Trump, America’s New Friends: Russia, North Korea and Belarus | US vetoes G7 proposal to combat Russia’s shadow fleet of oil tankers | US Derails G-7 Condemnation of Russian Missile Strike on Ukraine | Trump Bans AP And Reuters But Invites Russian State Media To Zelenskyy Meeting | Trump has pushed America into a new “Axis of Evil” by aligning with dictators and betraying allies | 2025 Trump–Zelenskyy Oval Office meeting + Some responses | US popularity collapses worldwide in wake of Trump’s return | U.S. Image Declines in Many Nations Amid Low Confidence in Trump | Trump’s War on Science: How His Policies Affect Canadian Research | As USAID retreats, China pounces | Indictments against Donald Trump | Donald Trump quotes

, oh, you're right, something about those evil immigrants eating cats... :D

Racial views of Donald Trump (Springfield pet-eating hoax)

At the moment, I don't have time to organize this stuff — tedious — but can be bribed. ;)

and this is why I hate the masses more than the authoritarian leaders — Christoffer

Yeah. I'm thinking better basic education might help.

"As if to encourage continued conflict, some of this body are seeking to unilaterally recognise a Palestinian state," Mr Trump said at the UN.

"Unilaterally" once meant "done only by one person". Trump used it to mean "Done my everyone except me".


List of countries that recognise a Palestinian state:
Afghanistan
Albania
Algeria
Angola
Antigua and Barbuda
Argentina
Armenia
Australia
Azerbaijan
Bahamas
Bahrain
Barbados
Belarus
Belgium (recent announcements in 2025 — see sources)
Belize
Benin
Bhutan
Bolivia
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Botswana
Brazil
Brunei
Bulgaria
Burkina Faso
Burundi
Cabo Verde (Cape Verde)
Cambodia
Cameroon (varied positions historically; check source notes)
Central African Republic
Chad
Chile
China
Colombia
Comoros
Congo (Republic of the Congo)
Costa Rica
Côte d’Ivoire (Ivory Coast)
Croatia (debated at times)
Cuba
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Democratic Republic of the Congo (DR Congo)
Denmark (varied; see source notes)
Dominica
Dominican Republic
Ecuador
Egypt
El Salvador
Equatorial Guinea
Eritrea (position has varied; see source notes)
Estonia (varied; see source notes)
Eswatini
Ethiopia
Fiji (historical / parliamentary positions vary)
Finland (varied; see source notes)
France (formal recognition announced in 2025 — see sources)
Gabon
Gambia
Georgia
Ghana
Grenada
Guatemala
Guinea
Guinea-Bissau
Guyana
Haiti
Honduras
Hungary
Iceland
India
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Ireland
Israel (does not recognise — included here only for completeness of discussion)
Italy (varied; see source notes)
Jamaica
Japan (does not recognise — included here only for context)
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Kenya
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Lebanon
Lesotho
Liberia
Libya
Luxembourg (recent actions 2025 — see sources)
Madagascar
Malawi
Malaysia
Maldives
Malta (recent recognitions/announcements 2024–2025 — see sources)
Mauritania
Mauritius
Mexico (varied; see source notes)
Mongolia
Montenegro
Morocco
Mozambique
Namibia
Nepal
Netherlands (varied; see source notes)
Nicaragua
Niger
Nigeria
North Korea (Democratic People’s Republic of Korea)
Norway
Oman
Pakistan
Palau (position varies; check source notes)
Panama (varied historically)
Paraguay
Peru
Philippines
Poland
Portugal (recent announcements 2025 — see sources)
Qatar
Romania
Russia
Rwanda
Sao Tome and Principe
Saudi Arabia
Senegal
Seychelles
Sierra Leone
Singapore (does not recognise — included here for context; see source notes)
Slovakia
Slovenia
Somalia
South Africa
South Sudan
Spain
Sri Lanka
Sudan
Suriname
Sweden
Syria
Tajikistan
Tanzania
Thailand
Togo
Tunisia
Turkmenistan
Turkey
Turks and Caicos (territories may have local statements; check national government positions)
Uganda
Ukraine
United Arab Emirates
Uruguay
Vanuatu
Venezuela
Vietnam
Western Sahara *(recognises Palestine — note: Western Sahara itself is a disputed/non-UN member entity)
Yemen
Zambia
Zimbabwe

Complied by ChatGPT. Recent additions may be missing.

You answer that, in light of your support for the Trump Administration's threats to ABC.

Personally, I do not think those in power should wield that power to limit free speech. I believe that is likely unconstitutional, but absolutely believe it is wrong.

There you have it. That’s a principle. I guess it’s a good thing Kimmel, the multimillionaire who celebrated other people being fired or censored, is still doing his show.

We just found out the other day from Google that the Biden admin pressured them to remove accounts for misinformation, many of whom were Trumpists like Tucker Carlson and Steve Bannon. Terrible isn’t it?

Enjoy Kimmel tonight.

https://nypost.com/2025/09/23/us-news/google-to-reinstate-youtube-accounts-banned-for-repeated-violations-of-covid-19-content/

Kimmel is kind of back. The 25% of network affiliates owned by Nexstar and Sinclair are not airing him. Nexstar is seeking govenment approval to acquire Tegna, which requires FCC and FTC approval.

We just found out the other day from Google that the Biden admin pressured them to remove accounts for misinformation, many of whom were Trumpists like Tucker Carlson and Steve Bannon. Terrible isn’t it? — NOS4A2

It depends on what the Biden administration actually did. If they "coerced or significantly encouraged" their protected speech, then it was unconstitutional (per the standard set by 5th circuit in Murthy v Missouri). If all they did was flag content that was contrary to Google's policy, they did no wrong.

Despite Kimmel's reinstatement, it is Trump's threats that are problematic. They are continuing, and they clearly cross the 5th circuit line:

"(Kimmel) is yet another arm of the DNC and, to the best of my knowledge, that would be a major Illegal Campaign Contribution," Trump said. "I think we’re going to test ABC out on this. Let’s see how we do. Last time I went after them, they gave me $16 Million Dollars. "

The statute of limitations to indict disgraced FBI director James Comey for lying to congress expire next Tuesday. Knowing the two-tiered justice system, I doubt we'll see charges.

Justice Department weighing whether to charge former FBI Director James Comey, sources say

Why does Donald Trump have to be such an idiot?

Trump appointee, Erik Siebert was US Attorney for the eastern district of Virginia. He had assessed the case was too weak to merit prosecution, so Trump fired him and installed one of his low-level personal attorneys to do his bidding.

Former AG Barr had reported that Trump wanted Comey prosecuted in his 1st term, but he pushed back.

Trump showed his hand on his "truth" social post:

“We can’t delay any longer,” Trump posted on Truth Social in a message directed to “Pam.” “JUSTICE MUST BE SERVED, NOW!!!” He specifically lamented the lack of criminal charges against Sen. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), former FBI Director James Comey and New York Attorney General Letitia James, three of his most prominent political antagonists.[

...Trump amplified his post in a brief gaggle with reporters on Saturday night, saying the post was not meant as a criticism of Bondi but that “we have to act fast.”
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/09/20/trump-bondi-truth-social-00574380


Siebert's replacement, Lindsey Halligan, has never prosecuted a case in her life. She was an insurance lawyer. She was 3rd runner up in the 2010 Miss Colorado pageant.

Comey has a good case for "vindictive and selection prosecution". I'm skeptical this will go to trial.

Andrew McCabe testified to the inspector general that Comey authorized leaks. Comey in 2020 testified in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee hearing that he did not. One of them lied and obstructed justice. Given that during a hearing in 2018 Comey said he “can’t remember,” “can’t recall” and “doesn’t know” 245 times I’m leaning towards him being the liar. They threw people in jail for far less.

Andrew McCabe testified to the inspector general that Comey authorized leaks. — NOS4A2

LOL! Here's what the IG said:

"While the only direct evidence regarding this McCabe-Comey conversation were the recollections of the two participants, there is considerable circumstantial evidence and we concluded that the overwhelming weight of that evidence supported Comey’s version of the conversation. Indeed, none of the circumstantial evidence provided support for McCabe’s account of the discussion; rather, we found that much of the available evidence undercut McCabe’s claim."


And even if they had a chance for a conviction, Trump flushed it down the toilet with his comments and actions. In addition to his public comments that I quoted, he had also fired Comey's daughter from the DOJ without cause, and likely got the IRS to audit him.

Incidentally, no one gets convicted of perjury for saying they don't remember.

That’s right, it’s Comey’s word versus McCabe’s, and it’s frightening that this stupid dynamic was once present at the highest levels of law enforcement management. These were supposed to be the experienced adults in the room, and they all turned out to be bickering hacks. Now Comey’s lawyers are going to have to convince a jury that McCabe is a liar and Comey isn’t. That’s hilarious.

On the other hand, your inexperienced prosecutor convinced a grand jury that there was enough to indict.

Get

your inexperienced prosecutor convinced a grand jury that there was enough to indict. — NOS4A2

Getting an indictment is a low bar, and she only succeeded on 2 of the 3 charges.

It also remains to be seen if she followed the proper procedures with the grand jury. The judge will get a transcript of the proceeding and could kick it out if she failed to follow the rules.

it’s Comey’s word versus McCabe’s — NOS4A2

And the IG judged that Comey's was credible, so how does this make him a hack? And you're ignoring the implications on the current DOJ.

The biggest mistake of Comey's career was to discuss the Clinton investigation- contrary to DOJ standards. This has become common, under the current leadership. Comey acted alone, on his own poor judgement, not under orders. The current DOJ prosecutes who Trump tells them to prosecute.