Hence, discrimination based on these categories is a barrier to the freedom of individuals to individuate. — Count Timothy von Icarus
Ethnicity, regionalism, and even religion might be thought to be more tied to place, and the ideal liberal citizen has transcended place, — Count Timothy von Icarus
while each place itself also becomes every other place. — Count Timothy von Icarus
It's the right now that seems to more often appeal to "elitism." — Count Timothy von Icarus
It largely doesn't even make sense as a coherent concept
— Mijin
Quite so. — Banno
I don't know that jargon, but a quick google tells me it includes teaching phonics, which means it is not the whole language approach.
The whole language approach is using contextual cues, guessing, etc to learn vocab without the sound-it-out basics of phonics. And it works fine for privileged kids - books around the house, parents that read to them, etc. I was taught this way, and you were too most likely. It's only the past few years where the failure of the approach has been addressed, and only in certain sectors of ed.
Turns out poor kids generally need direct instruction. This is ancient history man. I'm surprised you don't know what I'm talking about with a partner who teaches. — Jeremy Murray
Not seeing what “woke” is, is very woke. — Fire Ologist
Not seeing what “woke” is, is very woke.
— Fire Ologist
If you had meant this as a joke, I'd salute you as thread winner.
But, sadly, it seems more likely that you're being serious. — Mijin
What is funny is that the same people who can’t see what wokeness is, somehow see with absolute clarity that Kirk was racist. — Fire Ologist
Or Trump is a fascist dictator. — Fire Ologist
He wants to be a dictator, that's for sure, — Mijin
You think "woke" means everything has to be relative or subjective or something? — Mijin
Have you taken a moment to consider the possibility that maybe the problem is with your understanding? — Mijin
Many items on the list [of fascist traits] didn’t apply to Trump at all. — Fire Ologist
- Wokeism is a type of totalitarian fascism
- Woke teaches me that there is a difference between white people and everyone else, and that all white people must be reeducated about their implicit biases and privileges
- The word “woke” as a class of people is itself a bit anti-woke, elitist, oppressive
- the woke have to bring their own facts to the table, and they don’t seem to care about or need real proof
- The woke coined the term “woke”. Which is ironic now that they flee from the term. It’s CRT.
- Woke says people are doomed and chained to their biases, and have to be told by the enlightened what their real motivations are
- Wokeism makes everything political
- They want to include trans, so they exclude cis-gender. They want to include black women, so they exclude white men. It's been happening with great progressive success for 40 years. To the wokeist, I must be living in a different world
- From what I can tell, woke principles are in need of discussion (like, what does woke mean?) — Fire Ologist
Have you ever considered that if you really don’t get woke, you don’t get Trump either? — Fire Ologist
If anything could really expose wokeism and actually end it, it is this killing of Kirk. — Fire Ologist
I predict if more Dems don’t figure this out, they will lose even more seats in the mid terms. So far, there is no blue wave coming. Probably the opposite. — Fire Ologist
I do agree with Sartre. We are all, individually, responsible for everything.
Despite nothing having any intrinsic 'meaning'. This is the source of human suffering, and also cause for hope. Maybe? — Jeremy Murray
Yep. You think "woke" means everything has to be relative or subjective or something?
No wonder you're so against it!
Have you taken a moment to consider the possibility that maybe the problem is with your understanding? — Mijin
Having a forgiving god is very helpful if we don't take advantage of Him. :lol:
I don't need someone to argue with because I argue with myself. — Athena
Holding the individual responsible for everything seems to me an unrealistic expectation, given what we know today. And it may have always been an unreasonable expectation. — Athena
How about compassion and acceptance of differences? I ask that question and immediately experience fear. Out of fear, I ask who I can turn to if I get into trouble, and I am not confident anyone could help me, so how woke should I be? Maybe before we expect people to be woke, we should investigate what do they fear? Is there anything that can be done about what causes the fear? — Athena
It appears to me that there are no coherent, shared moral principles around which Woke states can organize themselves that do not lead to increased polarization and a rejection of the local community in favor of a shared global community of values found on screens. — Jeremy Murray
especially for young people who see our naked emperor. — Jeremy Murray
I predicted the comments that would follow Kirk's assassination, as well as the lack of comments. Didn't you? — Jeremy Murray
No it isn't the end of the discussion. Your own cite's exact words are:
"SRY is an intronless sex-determining gene on the Y chromosome. Mutations in this gene lead to a range of disorders of sex development" — Mijin
I didn't say you had, I was saying it's the obvious implication of using SRY as the determinator of gender in society. If it's the wrong implication, then please explain why so, and also answer the actual question. Instead of, frankly, using indignation as an excuse. — Mijin
I predicted the comments that would follow Kirk's assassination, as well as the lack of comments. Didn't you? — Jeremy Murray
You can’t argue with irrational disgust and hatred. — praxis
Which, as I have quite clearly and distinctly laid out for you - does not have anythign to do with sex determination. Aberration doesn't change your sex — AmadeusD
WTF? We were talking about gender being non-binary, and you brought up the SRY gene. Don't blame me if it's an indefensible position.This is pure nonsense. You brought it up. You deal with it. I didn't suggest we do that and no where did I intimate it was reasonable to suggest so. — AmadeusD
defended his positions on conceptual grounds — AmadeusD
I am tempted to borrow this and use it when I feel the argumentative urge rising...
I have wished I could believe in a God or religion my entire life - I grew up in a small city with a lot of conservative, religious people, and I saw how much meaning it brought to them.
Having lived through a lot of tragedy in the past decade+, it was this group of people that stepped up for me most, overall. People I hadn't talked to in years, casual friends who became close, etc. I do think people who practice virtues in a community setting are better at those virtues, in general. Thanks to Count Timothy for turning me on to "After Virtue".
Staunch atheist that I am, I can still find some comfort and meaning in religious thought. Christianity has been deemed toxic in some of my (former) progressive circles, and I find that painful, such a diminishment of the richness of our shared history.
Holding the individual responsible for everything seems to me an unrealistic expectation, given what we know today. And it may have always been an unreasonable expectation.
— Athena
Definitely. Not realistic. But neither are many of the divine principles of the religions I am familiar with. I guess you could say I came to philosophy late in life as part of a search for meaning, or it's absence, and I don't separate the rational from the divine in the existential realm.
Plus, the whole 'philosopher condemns man to be free, joins French resistance' angle inspired me to try to learn some philosophy a few years ago. I had become tired of belief systems that seemed to inspire no action.
How about compassion and acceptance of differences? I ask that question and immediately experience fear. Out of fear, I ask who I can turn to if I get into trouble, and I am not confident anyone could help me, so how woke should I be? Maybe before we expect people to be woke, we should investigate what do they fear? Is there anything that can be done about what causes the fear?
— Athena
Interesting comment.
Fear is your instant response, and I had similar automatic responses when I used to find myself in group woke environments. In certain contexts - people passing as experts, leading workshops that ignored meaningful solutions to real problems in favour of wokety blah blah - my fight or flight response would trigger. I didn't realize I had PTSD at the time, or I could have avoided that response strategically.
Woke BS would occasionally trigger my PTSD. It feels crazy to claim that, but true.
Different from fear, but the same automatic activation of strong negative emotions. Triggered by threat.
'Wokeness' is threatening, and those emotional responses should help us to deal with that threat, from an evolutionary perspective. Society is suspicious of negative emotions in general, but I certainly do better personally when I direct that heightened level of arousal with purpose rather than trying to 'subdue' it.
Easier said than done :)
Solutions? It appears to me that there are no coherent, shared moral principles around which Woke states can organize themselves that do not lead to increased polarization and a rejection of the local community in favour of a shared global community of values found on screens.
The only 'pragmatic' solution I see is to find interest groups across political and demographic divides that unite on primary shared moral principles. I think of free speech heroes FIRE in the US, who attract conservatives and liberals.
In a world with so little coherent narrative available, I think a track record of commitment to fundamental principles should demand more attention, and should be a primary objective, especially for young people who see our naked emperor. — Jeremy Murray
We had that. It was called public education and being American. That education was built on the Athenian model of education for well-rounded, individual growth. An evil religion based on a mythology of false beliefs and distorted history is not a good thing.The only 'pragmatic' solution I see is to find interest groups across political and demographic divides that unite on primary shared moral principles. I think of free speech heroes FIRE in the US, who attract conservatives and liberals.
There is so precious little good faith left between the sides. And it is not just extremists on both sides. It’s everyone. The line between Republican and Democrat is stark (woke securely on the progressive side, and conservatives squarely republican) like a border wall. — Fire Ologist
The conversation about free speech is “yeah, but you cheered when Kirk was shot!” Versus “yeah, but you cheered when the FCC shut down Kimmel!” — Fire Ologist
You would hope the philosophic types around here would be able to parse through the emotional knee-jerk mess a little better, identify facts, and stay logical and reasonable with the analysis and conclusions. — Fire Ologist
Is the naked emperor on both sides? Is wokism the naked emperor, along with conservatives’ often excessive and cold-hearted ways? — Fire Ologist
I am considering starting a thread just for PTSD survivors. It is a serious problem, especially when one does not know that it is a personal problem — Athena
The only 'pragmatic' solution I see is to find interest groups across political and demographic divides that unite on primary shared moral principles. I think of free speech heroes FIRE in the US, who attract conservatives and liberals.
We had that. It was called public education and being American. That education was built on the Athenian model of education for well-rounded, individual growth. An evil religion based on a mythology of false beliefs and distorted history is not a good thing. — Athena
Not quite. I am quite personally really perturbed and unsettled by the celebrations and subsequent justifications of the same. This murder and its response seems like a Rubicon moment to me. I didn't see this coming. Kirk is just so ... middling...both the event and the response are out of all proportion (which doesn't surprise) and are explicitly hateful and violent. This, to me, was not predictable. — AmadeusD
Are you an American? I always find it strange how the entire WEIRD world seems to have imported the binary of Republican / Democrat. — Jeremy Murray
the impact of woke is to silence the centre. T
— Jeremy Murray — Fire Ologist
they would shut her down and kick her out for not conforming on all issues — Fire Ologist
If you don't like what I'm saying, you can leave the room. Of course, there goes your rank, there goes your future. — Trump
As Trump wrapped up his address, some officers stood and lightly applauded. Others remained seated.
The progressives can’t fathom a different opinion than their own. — Fire Ologist
Any outsider on any issue must be a facist/racist/sexist, and all of those who hold any opinion that opposes them, indicates to them a person who cannot be trusted on anything. — Fire Ologist
Such people are to be feared, hated and silenced. — Fire Ologist
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.