Even if I was in a dream, my ability to have these thoughts, including interacting with you, proved your existence. — javi2541997
My dream was based on the experience of interacting with other living beings like me, not deities or gods. I believe that addresing Zeus is not particularly relevant to the existence of you, me, and the other members of this forum. — javi2541997
You’re arguing that dreaming of X is proof that X exists.
If the argument fails when X is Zeus then it fails when X is Michael. — Michael
Meanwhile, Michael or Javi is real — javi2541997
You’re begging the question.
Your argument is now “if I dream of X and if X exists then X exists”. — Michael
At times, I have dreamt that I am interacting on the forum and either disappointed or relieved that the exchange was not 'real'. — Jack Cummins
I have never experienced Zeus, nor did I dream with him. I think it is pretty obvious the cause: his source of existence is missing. — javi2541997
I guess you disagree with my notion, right? — javi2541997
You've used the phrase "dreaming with" several times, whereas "dreaming of" sounds more apt. It's kind of odd because in order to dream with someone you'd have to share in the same content. — Nils Loc
The frustration of a lucid dream is apparent in and round those rare moments when you take what is occurring in a dream to be reality. The only notable example of this was thinking I had a drawer full of cash, which evaporated on waking. — Nils Loc
The point is that I have knowledge and consciousness that you exist because you caused me certain experiences in both dreams and reality. — javi2541997
Wait when I dream of you. — javi2541997
On the other hand, I even believe that my point would also be plausible if you were AI, because my argument is that I suggest you exist because you interfere in me. It is not possible to dream of God or Zeus because they never made an impact on me. But I consider it plausible to dream of you, Michael or Baden. Isn't this a good starting point to consider people real? — javi2541997
If it were then would it not be the case that God or Zeus is real for some, and not real for others?
That is, some would say that they have made an impact on them -- so just as I conclude that money is real so do I conclude that Zeus is real every time there's a lightning storm. — Moliere
No, it does not fail.
There are different subjects in your premises. Zeus is a deity, and its characteristics are based on Greek mythology. It is the subject of a "myth", nothing close to something real.
Meanwhile, Michael or Javi is real, because you are causing me to feel certain experiences. There are some chances that you might appear in my dreams, because the source of your existence (at least in what I consider real) is based in my experience of interacting with you. Then, you exist.
I have never experienced Zeus, nor did I dream with him. I think it is pretty obvious the cause: his source of existence is missing.
However, the source of your existence is obvious to me. — javi2541997
You're asking the eye to see itself. As always, it will go to work trying to give you the explanation you seek. — frank
Even if I was in a dream, my ability to have these thoughts, including interacting with you, proved your existence — javi2541997
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.