• Linkey
    81
    I have read a Viktor Frankl's book about Nazi concentration camps, and I noticed that the rules in these camps were designed to inflict maximum suffering on Jews (not just to kill them). I also saw a TV program about World War II, and it mentioned the following fact. At the end of the war, the Allies liberated the territories of Germany where concentration camps were located. The Germans evacuated Jews from these concentration camps and transported them to deeper regions of Germany, which the Allies had not yet reached. And this was done at the expense of military expediency – instead of evacuating weapons, important equipment and so on, the Germans evacuated Jews. From this, it can be concluded that most Germans derived sadistic pleasure from carrying out the Holocaust, and this sadism became a need for them.
  • Punshhh
    3.3k
    Yes, it appears to happen in all cases of genocide. The aggressor feels a moral duty to continue the genocide until the victim is extinguished.
  • Outlander
    2.9k
    Yes, it appears to happen in all cases of genocide. The aggressor feels a moral duty to continue the genocide until the victim is extinguished.Punshhh

    The point you haven't addressed is OP's claim that he feels the concentration camps were unlike the many other historical gulags (prisoner work camps) but instead literally just erected to perform torture for torture's sake.

    A rebuttal to that would be, no, minus the technological advancement that, if any other historical prisoner work camp was in a period of time that had the same technology and progress of science, would have done the same as well, if not worse (including the medical experiments, experimenting on prisoners can be traced back to the BC period).

    I'm not intimately familiar with non-Christian ideology but it seems to be a common "Abrahamic" theme that "everything happens for a reason", which might work out to "if you're in a concentration camp, that's because I (God) want(s) you to be there." Which means, unlike non-religious folk who would either sabotage their equipment, kill the guard (or themselves) at the first opportunity, religious folk will work and toil as if it was any other job. What I am intimately familiar with is how the atheist mind works, and in this particular case, it works by seeing the theist as a delusional albeit "useful idiot" in the simplest of terms for the reasons I've just explained. This could explain why they valued their labor and sought to transport them (a lengthy, resource intensive process) as opposed to killing them with a bullet to the head (fast and cheap). That would logically eliminate the idea of not wanting them to tell their tale to the Allies since the latter option would have been preferred. Or perhaps, they didn't want "the world" to see the bodies. Dead soldiers are one thing. Dead civilians are another. So, transporting them (and not killing them) does not in and of itself justify an argument for "sadism."

    Based on these facts, it (OP's claim) is not immediately conclusive that the perpetrators "derived sadistic pleasure" that "became a need for them", at least, not in a unique historical context contrasted to the dozens, if not hundreds, of historic cases where groups of people were enslaved and/or genocided by other groups. It's just more shocking since in the modern age we have photographs and the evidence was freshly uncovered not wiped away or degraded beyond recognition by the sands of time, not to mention the advancement of science and technology (and resulting medical experiments).
  • T Clark
    15.5k
    From this, it can be concluded that most Germans derived sadistic pleasure from carrying out the Holocaust, and this sadism became a need for them.Linkey

    First point— this has nothing to do with psychoanalysis.

    Second point— the only thing that can be concluded from what you’ve written is that the Holocaust was a very bad thing and that the Germans are responsible for what they did.
  • Punshhh
    3.3k
    I don’t want to argue about who is the most despicable. But in terms of genocide, the holocaust wasn’t that unusual, albeit on a grand and industrial scale. The pertinent point is the process of dehumanisation and insatiable need for more and more horrific treatment and killing. The perpetrators become radicalised and themselves inhuman.
  • ProtagoranSocratist
    166
    From this, it can be concluded that most Germans derived sadistic pleasure from carrying out the Holocaust, and this sadism became a need for them.Linkey

    i wouldn't say this about the general population, as they were just swayed by sentiment and strong leadership: but this is probably an accurate statement when it comes to people who served the third reich directly (such as the SS and other branches of their military).

    I'm only questioning this because some germans later on were disgusted with seeing the result of the rhetoric. The Nazis are a great example of why authority in general should be watched and questioned, not just specific "bad" authority figures.
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