There are around 270 million citizens of countries with a king, and this is an international site. Please do not presume that your "we" covers everyone here.

EDIT: I promise I'm not anti-American, but this habit of Americans of assuming everyone is American is infuriating.

We have kings of a sort, those who manage the world: the people who go to Davos and are found in Wall Street and The City of London, etc.

They're kings metaphorically, but they yield far more power. But the mistake we keep committing is believing that a king (or leader) is what we need. They know no better than people what they need.

Indeed, a good part of the reason why we are burning the planet, committed to forever wars and inching closer to nuclear annihilation is because people in power think they know more than they do.

We don't have a democracy; we have fractured republics. I can't say what we should think, because there are too many topics.

assuming everyone is American — Jamal

No, no, no… We just assume everyone wishes they were American.

what should we think about? — Athena

Follow your curiosity. It knows where it’s going—or at least how to get there.

What should we think about?[/quote]
Caries.
Adult diapers.
But mostly, caries.

What should we[I/you] think about?

Everything. Nothing. And why the chronic habit (nearly contagious/mimetic learned idiocy) of not-thinking persists even in this post-Enlightenment "Information Age" (e.g. in the US, "Trump/MAGA" are only an effing symptoms). :mask:

Why assume Trump/Maga are the best example of not thinking?

Think about it, because if you think you don’t need to think about it…well, just think about it.

Aren’t Maga the only ones in the US pretending they don’t want the US to become like Europe, while Europe becomes less and less like Europe every year? Nothing to think about there? I guess if you don’t care about the US and Europe qua US and Europe, there is no reason to call what MAGA thinks “thinking”.

I promise I'm not anti-American, but this habit of Americans of assuming everyone is American is infuriating. — Jamal

And sadly parochial.

I had a laugh at the idea that the USA doesn't have a king. Those countries with titular kings managed to build limitations in to their political systems, usually for the king to act only on the advice of the parliament. The USA apparently thought that since their king was elected, they could give them more power. It's their undoing. European, and other monarchies, kept the king in a box; the USA actually removed restraint on the executive.

That other nations might find the American system admirable is risible.

Which particular non-or-un-Americans/Europeans are the targets of your ire? Who are they who sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids?

I've no idea what your ramble means.

That other nations might find the American system admirable is risible. — Banno

Your government is partially based on the American system. What do you want to change it to? :razz:

in that we have senators instead of lords. Profound stuff.

How about Socrates and knowing ourselves and virtues?

AI says philosophy is thinking about existence, knowledge, values, and reality.

I think we need to understand reality, economics, and the best way to accumulate and distribute wealth for an ideal civilization.

glad to see you differentiate between economics and reality.

Follow your curiosity. It knows where it’s going—or at least how to get there. — T Clark

What is the value of that? I think we have some serious problems that we need to resolve so our children and our children's children have a chance of having good lives. Being curious about the problems, gathering information, and being creative in resolving the problems, has value, but I am not sure frivolous thinking has much value.

glad to see you differentiate between economics and reality. — Banno

Interesting comment considering I think colleges fail to teach how to have a useful understanding of economics. Without an understanding of reality, there can be no useful thoughts about economics.

Without an understanding of reality, there can be no useful thoughts about economics. — Athena

Children start to grasp the difference between real and unreal at a fairly early age, don't they?

that we have senators instead of lords. Profound stuff. — Banno

You guys copied our federalism. I think you secretly love the USA.

I had a laugh at the idea that the USA doesn't have a king. Those countries with titular kings managed to build limitations in to their political systems, usually for the king to act only on the advice of the parliament. The USA apparently thought that since their king was elected, they could give them more power. It's their undoing. European, and other monarchies, kept the king in a box; the USA actually removed restraint on the executive. — Banno

I long thought Europeans were fortunate to have a relatively long memory of kings and the struggle to gain the power of the people, because without that experience, nor education for democracy, there appears to be no will to be self-governing.

Capitalism based on the British autocracy is not the best way to have democracy.

The British have never really had autocracy due to the Magna Carta.

You guys copied our federalism. I think you secretly love the USA. — frank

Can we please stop confusing the USA with democracy? The US began with slaves and masters, and the industrial north was even worse regarding the exploitation of humans. I do not know of which federation you refer, but I think we owe much to the Haudenosaunee Confederacy (Iroquois). We owe much to Athens, then Hellenism, and philosophers from that time to the present.

Can we please stop confusing the USA with democracy? — Athena

Strictly speaking, it's a republic, not a democracy.

The British have never really had autocracy due to the Magna Carta. — frank

You have chosen of subject worth thinking about, and I am delighted.

Looking at online explanations of autocracy, I see there is disagreement. One source said there are 3 forms of autocracy, dictatorships, monarchies, and dominant-party regimes. I think it is an error to restrict our understanding of autocracy to the organization of the government. Where there is an autocracy, the whole social and economic order would be part of that autocracy. In the US that is supposed to be democratic, the Industries were modeled after Britain's autocracy. We have some understanding of our Industry being autocratic, but our understanding of this is non nonexistent. Would you like to develop this thinking?

In the US that is supposed to be democratic, the Industries were modeled after Britain's autocracy. We have some understanding of our Industry being autocratic, but our understanding of this is non nonexistent. Would you like to develop this thinking? — Athena

What is said is that American industries were modeled after the US military, whose structure comes from the Prussian military.

The US went through a period of de-industrialization starting in the 1980s. That old military style evolved into something more flexible, but there are still elements of it to be seen.

And the British have never had an autocracy.

Children start to grasp the difference between real and unreal at a fairly early age, don't they? — frank

Around age 8, the child's brian literally changes. The myelin sheath that covers the neurons is completed, and the shutdown of our brains begins. No longer will the child absorb information as they do the previous years. The child will begin judging what is true and what is not true, but this judgment is based on what was learned during the first 8 years. There is no guarantee that there will be a good understanding of reality.

I am not sure frivolous thinking has much value. — Athena

Curiosity is not frivolous thinking, it is going where your heart leads you. If your heart doesn’t tell you what the right thing to do is, nothing will. Here’s a quote. I use all the time. It’s from Ziporyn’s translation of the Chuang Tzu.

What I call good is not humankindness and responsible conduct, but just being good at what is done by your own intrinsic virtuosities. Goodness, as I understand it, certainly does not mean humankindness and responsible conduct! It is just fully allowing the uncontrived condition of the inborn nature and allotment of life to play itself out. What I call sharp hearing is not hearkening to others, but rather hearkening to oneself, nothing more.

What is said is that American industries were modeled after the US military, whose structure comes from the Prussian military.

The US went through a period of de-industrialization starting in the 1980s. That old military style evolved into something more flexible and, but there are still elements of it to be seen.

And the British have never had an autocracy. — frank

Wow, I thought I was the only one saying the US adopted the Prussian model of bureaucracy and also the is model of education for technology. Who esle is saying that? I hate being alone with the Prussian understanding.

Considering there isn't 100% agreement on what autocracy means, I am sticking my argument about the British being autocratic. This explanation comes from an old book, so maybe our disagreement is because the meaning of the word has changed.

The US begins with a New Social Order. That social order was more idealistic than actualized. The ideal was based on philosophy and the Enlightenment, but the new social order was not for everyone. It was for White property owners, and it was supported by slavery and the exploitation of immigrants desperate for jobs.

Curiosity is not frivolous thinking, it is going where your heart leads you. If your heart doesn’t tell you what the right thing to do is, nothing will. Here’s a quote. I use all the time. It’s from Ziporyn’s translation of the Chuang Tzu. — T Clark

I can appreciate that point of view, but I can not accept it for myself. I am realizing something about myself I did not think about before. I am thinking I would not vote for Tzu to be my president, and I would value a man I wanted to be president more than I value a philosopher. It is said, "he turned down a job offer from King Wei of Chu, because he valued his personal freedom," according to Wikipedia. Therefore, the man willing to lead a nation is more important in my framework of human value.

However, we need artists and musicians, and philosophers, but someone better be thinking about our problems and how to resolve them and be willing to take on the responsibility of leadership.

Strictly speaking, it's a republic, not a democracy. — frank

Strictly speaking, I am female, not a human. :lol:

The Declaration of Independence could also be called a Declaration of Responsibility. Culturally, we have had a democracy with principles to live by, and number 1 is being a responsible citizen. Ideally, our social order is democratic, and I believe our economy and relationships would be better if we replaced our autocratic Industry with the democratic model.

I don't think there can be a republic without a democratic social order.

I can appreciate that point of view, but I can not accept it for myself. — Athena

And there’s no reason why you should. From what little I know of you, you are clearly a person of will. That’s a good thing, but it’s not what’s right for me.