Nice. Thanks for the heads up, and the forward planning. Very much appreciated.

For legal compliance and technical reasons, we will not be migrating the content from this site (the current one). Instead, we will start fresh, and the current site will become a permanent, read-only archive, which I will host myself. — Jamal

Understood. I appreciate that you will keep the site as a read-only archive. There are many memories here, and it would be a pity to lose them forever.

We will be using Discourse — Jamal

I guess we have to wait until you set up the new TPF to create our profiles in this new software, right?

This upgrade represents a substantial investment in the forum's future. Running costs will be $100/month for Discourse hosting, in addition to the costs of setting up and running a company. Because of this, we'll need more subscribers to keep things going. — Jamal

I'm in. I hereby agree to the costs, investment and other features to keep things going.

Stay tuned for further updates. — Jamal

:up:

I wonder what some folk are going to think about having their post count reset to 0. Will that happen? How "fresh" will the new start be? Don't want to clutter up the public thread with my idiosyncratic bouts of curiosity.

Will we have to sign up again as if joining a new site? Or will we just load up TPF one March day and be on an empty new forum? Will new membership admittance be the same as it is now (ie. no temporary "open enroll" to get the initial numbers up, etc.)? — Outlander

Existing members will have to sign up to join the new site. This is essential for legal compliance, because this is where you will agree to the new Acceptable Use Policy.

So far I don't have a definite plan for how to get existing members over to the new site. Probably I'll make a list of members who have been active over the past year or so, and send an email. Otherwise, there will probably be a permanent announcement on the archive site.

And yes, I think we should probably open up the new site, to allow anyone to sign up, though with admin approval to activate accounts.

Understood. I appreciate that you will keep the site as a read-only archive. There are many memories here, and it would be a pity to lose them forever. — javi2541997

Indeed :up:

I guess we have to wait until you set up the new TPF to create our profiles in this new software, right? — javi2541997

Well, I've made progress in setting it up already, but unfortunately I can't open it up until everything is sorted out legally, I have a business bank account connected to the subscription system, and stuff like that.

I'm in. I hereby agree to the costs, investment and other features to keep things going. — javi2541997

Thank you for the support Javi. :up:

I wonder what some folk are going to think about having their post count reset to 0 — Outlander

If I am not mistaken, I believe Discourse doesn't count the contribution of each member with the post number. However, everything will depend on how it is set up, I guess.

The number of posts will be visible on the user's profile, but not within discussions.

Incidentally, aside from the number of posts we will have other things like badges, trust levels, and upvotes, though I'm not sure how we'll use them yet.

Existing members will have to sign up to join the new site [...] there will probably be a permanent announcement on the archive site. — Jamal

Does this mean there will be an entirely new domain name as well? Or something like a https://thephilosophyforum.com/archive link that will point to the soon-to-be-archived forum we're on now?

This is a good domain name. A private browser window Google search for "online philosophy forum" shows TPF as #1 result for me. 10+ years of search relevance is worth keeping /utilizing as the access point for the new forum, if you ask me.

I want the sites to be separate so I'll transfer thephilosophyforum.com to the new site and use something else for the archive.

Incidentally, aside from the number of posts we will have other things like badges, trust levels, and upvotes, though I'm not sure how we'll use them yet. — Jamal

Interesting!

...upvotes... — Jamal

@180 Proof will be very happy!

, The Oldies have been there before - My count was over twenty thousand in the previous incarnation.

True. You were also in the old PF, so the transmigration is not something new to you, Banno. :wink:

...transmigration... — javi2541997

Metempsychosis?

Metempsychosis? — Banno

Yeah.

You're probably right. But even what's his name likes the idea of a "community posting room", likely for the reasons I've suggested. — Outlander

I don't get it. How could a live chat not function as a "community posting room"? Granted, I don't really know what it means.

The Shoutbox used to be live chat and we had to make it a regular discussion thread when we moved to Plush only because Plush has no live chat feature. — Jamal

et @Outlander

It is a great discovery to know how the shoutbox was born. :up:

I think it is one of the most relevant threads, and that most of us are fond of it because this is where we grow our online friendship. I understand Outlander's concerns, but we have to trust Jamal, and if he states that the shoutbox will still be the same but with a live chat function, then that is what will truly happen. However, if for different reasons, we are not satisfied, we can always ask Jamal to set it up in a different manner until it fits our preferences. I think we will have to be patient. The first months will be about getting used to the new platform. Yet it is very important to admit that some things will indeed be different because we are moving from PlushForums to another software. Like when we move to another neighbourhood.

Keep in mind one important thing—we are actually the ones who make the things. Whether the next version of the shoutbox is funny and entertaining is dependent on us, nothing else.

:up:

The Shoutbox won't be the same, but in my opinion it won't be worse. It never really belonged among the discussions, and this has caused problems.

Here are some screenshots of the Shoutbox, one expanded and one floating in the bottom right corner.





As you can see, it's pretty lonely there at the moment.

Here are some screenshots of the Shoutbox, one expanded and one floating in the bottom right corner. — Jamal

OK – it will have a different aspect, but I do not see any problem at all. It seems we will be able to interact as we used to do, and the dark mode is very refreshing. The current light mode strains my eyes when I use it at night.

Perhaps—another different feature I am thinking of—each thread would not be ordered with pages, as in PlushForums, but just a single page where all the comments and replies are posted. Then, if I wanted to reread a response from you, I would have to scroll until I found it; not go to page 261 as we do here.

As you can see, it's pretty lonely there at the moment. — Jamal

There are three Jamals. That's enough. :grin:

There are three Jamals. That's enough. — javi2541997

Yeah :grin:

Perhaps—another different feature I am thinking of—each thread would not be ordered with pages, as in PlushForums, but just a single page where all the comments and replies are posted. Then, if I wanted to reread a response from you, I would have to scroll until I found it; not go to page 261 as we do here. — javi2541997

Yep, no paging, either in chat or in regular discussions. But there are other ways of navigating within a discussion, and you can easily search within it too (for chat as well):

Yep, no paging, either in chat or in regular discussions. But there are other ways of navigating within a discussion, and you can easily search within it too (for chat as well): — Jamal

Cool! :cool:

How could a live chat not function as a "community posting room"? — Jamal

First and foremost, it's not that big a deal. Though I feel impassioned enough to make this reply, as I do think, as someone who is not advanced, that is to say, not intimately acquainted with the ins and outs of higher philosophy, the Shoutbox is a joy to visit, peruse, and respond to. Probably an easy second favorite part of my experience with this website, behind reading threads, of course.

In my experience a traditional Shoutbox or "live chat" is generally at the very top of the forum index (though this can—usually—be altered and even "collapsed" or outright hidden per user preference) and is roughly 5 - 10 lines of text "tall". Though it can be scrolled up. This discourages all but simple pleasantries and spontaneous "what's everybody up to" or perhaps the occasional "thoughts on today's topic of XYZ?", which is wholly sufficient, sure..

But what about @jorndoe's ever popular news updates? These take up a good amount of screen real estate in the context of a live chat that encourages more spontaneity thus encourages more "fun" or "social" or otherwise "unsubstantial" replies.

As it is now, sometimes the Shoutbox takes a few days to reach a new page (10 replies), sometimes it creates more than one page in 15 minutes. From my experience live chat permanently truncates a certain number of older replies based on however many new replies are made. It's nice to be able to go back and see what was said a day or two ago.

Again, it's not that big a deal. Just my 2 cents on the matter. Which a mod did agree with as far as making something of the sort, I might add. It seems like a 2 second thing you can make or not make at any time so again try and not read too far into it.

I actually only just realized that you can search within a discussion here on PlushForums, I mean without going to the Advanced Options page. Doh!

In my experience a traditional Shoutbox or "live chat" is generally at the very top of the forum index (though this can—usually—be altered and even "collapsed" or outright hidden per user preference) and is roughly 5 - 10 lines of text "tall". Though it can be scrolled up. This discourages all but simple pleasantries and spontaneous "what's everybody up to" or perhaps the occasional "thoughts on today's topic of XYZ?", which is wholly sufficient, sure.. — Outlander

See the above. Chatrooms can be expanded to fill the main page panel.

As it is now, sometimes the Shoutbox takes a few days to reach a new page (10 replies), sometimes it creates more than one page in 15 minutes. From my experience live chat permanently truncates a certain number of older replies based on however many new replies are made. It's nice to be able to go back and see what was said a day or two ago. — Outlander

We can configure this. Right now I've got it saving the chat messages forever.

...upvotes...
— Jamal
@180 Proof will be very happy! — Banno

:up:

Congratulations on the move, . :up:

Out of curiosity, why did you opt out of your former idea of going with Communiteq hosting?

---

Also, "form and content in philosophy," I would suggest "zen mode reading" (and not just composing), where one can devote their entire screen to the topic at hand (example). Although I think Discourse allows this modification on a user level by default...?

User Control: Mute other users by adding them to your "Ignore" list. — Jamal

This is good timing given the way that Chrome Manifest V3 has killed 's extension (which is nevertheless still temporarily available in Brave, Edge, Vivaldi, and probably some others).

All of that can be done in live chat, unless I'm missing something. I'm not saying no—just trying to establish what people think the live chat will be lacking. Because quite often I think it'll turn out that live chat isn't lacking it aftet all.

The Shoutbox used to be live chat and we had to make it a regular discussion thread when we moved to Plush only because Plush has no live chat feature. — Jamal

I want to say it will be better, and will more properly distinguish the chat from the forum.

It's also worth noting that once web pages and forums became asynchronous the distinction between live vs. non-live chat was largely superseded. Older forum software which was not asynchronous (and required a page re-load after submitting a post or PM) is now gone. It was that page load that made it feel "non-live." Of course, that model was nice insofar as it felt more "long form" (like sending a letter), but the current Shoutbox is this weird amalgam between short-form and long-form media. An instant message style UI would simply be better for the TPF Shoutbox (although the non-paginated Discourse format is already more "live" than a paginated format). It would also help discourage short-form bleed into the main forum.

Relatedly, I would propose time limits on editing. The perpetual editing of TPF leads to careless composition, in my opinion.

---

I actually only just realized that you can search within a discussion here on PlushForums, I mean without going to the Advanced Options page. Doh! — Jamal

You can, but the search is wonky. It isn't thread-indexed, but rather functions via a search on common words in the thread title. So it will return results for any thread with similar titles. There are other problems too, such as the fact that threads containing special characters are unsearchable, and users with special name formats are not present in the mentions dropdown.

Change is the only constant.

Thank you for all of your time and talent that you have generously given to the current (and future) ThePhilosophyForum.

That sound absolutely fantastic, across pretty much all changes noted. AWesome.

I expect you in the new home of TPF with no excuses. Don't leave me (us), BC.

It sounds like there is not anything our current software can do that the new software cannot do. If that's correct, then we can not only fully replicate what we had, but we can also add to it.

I say this in response to @Outlander, who is concerned that the Shoutbox as we know it will necessarily disappear with the introduction of a live chatbox. I would think (or suggest) that if there were a desire to start a thread that was lounge-like and not chat-like, that could be done?

If the two turned out the same, there'd be no need for both, but if there were an important difference, maybe have both, but that to be determined as we go along.