Did you not read that 26.9% of the richest 20% will actually see their taxes go up?
Did you not read that 22% of the next bracket of rich will see their taxes go up? — Agustino
And I don't really agree with super high taxes for the rich. — Agustino
In addition, if I do end up rich, there's the problem of why should the state be an administrator for my wealth? — Agustino
I should start my own programs to give to the poor, and the state should not tax me anymore. They should give me full tax breaks so long as I give a certain amount of my income to the poor! — Agustino
Nope, not 35.5% will see their taxes go up. Only 6.8% will see their taxes go up:Yes, a lower percentage than the poorest, of whom 35.5% will see their taxes go up. — Baden
How many will have a tax increase? 6.8% of the poorest 20% will NOT get a tax cut, but rather will pay more tax under the Trump tax plan.
I don't need the state, I need a community of people.This is just babble. Without the state, you are nothing. Go live in the woods and see how rich you get there. — Baden
I've further clarified:I have a feeling you're more interested in being rich than helping the poor. If you want to help the poor, don't vote for someone who wants to take their benefits away and give them to the rich in tax cuts. — Baden
The problem is that all of us have learned to treat the government like a Big Daddy that is supposed to take care of us, while we misbehave. That's wrong. People are supposed to take care of each other, not governments. As far as I'm concerned, the government is an evil. — Agustino
I disagree that those services you mention require the kind of overly controlling, big bureacratic state we have today.Don't call the police next time you get robbed then. Stop using public roads and boycott the fire brigade. Get out there and protest against public transport, libraries and schools. Good luck with that. — Baden
Furthermore, it's not at all clear that Trump will take away benefits, and especially not in order to give them to the rich via tax cuts. Trump is lowering budget overall in most categories. I would disagree with how much he is defunding the Environmental Protection Agency, but apart from that it looks good. He is removing some old programs that took in a lot of money, and some of them had little positive effects, and introducing new ones which are cheaper, and will hopefully have better long term effects. It's hard to judge. If it was after me, the government shouldn't be doing a lot of this stuff anyway. It should all be at local levels.If you want to help the poor, don't vote for someone who wants to take their benefits away and give them to the rich in tax cuts. — Baden
In fact, I did call the police one time when I got my place attacked in the UK and guess what - they came in 2 days, and ended up doing almost nothing, just saying how sorry they were... I think the state bureaucracy is actually really bad and crippling many of these services. For example, I remember healthcare used to be quite horrible in the UK (massive waiting times) - although it was free.Don't call the police next time you get robbed then. — Baden
Well okay, but you seem to be jumping to these conclusions based on what you personally think about Trump's character, and I don't think that's very useful when judging his tax policy for example.He doesn't give a flying about the poor or their problems because he can't relate to him. Don't jump on his depraved bandwagon. — Baden
but you seem to be jumping to these conclusions based on what you personally think about Trump's character, and I don't think that's very useful when judging his tax policy for example — Agustino
The problem is that all of us have learned to treat the government like a Big Daddy that is supposed to take care of us, while we misbehave. That's wrong. People are supposed to take care of each other, not governments. As far as I'm concerned, the government is an evil. — Agustino
America needs a budget cut. It seems to me that only someone financially illiterate can suggest otherwise. — Agustino
Yes he does cut out budgets for several state programs that were meant for the disadvantaged — Agustino
I was hoping the political pendulum would swing pretty hard to the left after Trump, but his base cannot be persuaded that big government isn't always a bad thing. — Posty McPostface
People are supposed to take care of each other, not governments. — Agustino
In fact, I did call the fucking police one time when I got my place attacked in the UK and guess what - they came in 2 days, and ended up doing almost nothing, just saying how sorry they were... — Agustino
I disagree that those services you mention require the kind of overly controlling, big bureacratic state we have today. — Agustino
Trump has only been in office 8 months; give him time. With any luck, he'll take the Republicans down with him. — Bitter Crank
Now, if you live in the really anti-government states, like much of the south, you are a net dependent on the federal government. Those federal government hating states get more from the Feds than they send to Washington. — Bitter Crank
You can't do anything about a fanatic base who view the government as an evil entity that needs to be drained. — Posty McPostface
My impression from afar is that Trump supporters have very little overlap with small-Government Republicans. The biggest economic desire of Trump supporters appears to be erection of a tariff wall to protect US manufacturing, which is about as Big Government as one can get.You can't do anything about a fanatic base who view the government as an evil entity that needs to be drained. — Posty McPostface
(although as a philosopher that statement makes me blush, as I know that counterfactuals like that are meaningless). — andrewk
I think a possible Pro is that his election may have demonstrated that the electoral influence of people of lower socio-economic status has been greatly underestimated. That may open the door to endorsed candidates with policies that up until now were regarded as political suicide in the US, like meaningful measures to reduce inequality and curbs on plutocratic power. The popularity of Bernie Sanders and Jeremy Corbyn are other signs of this, but those signs are not nearly as persuasive as the fact that people were prepared to elect a recognised narcissistic, bullying, misogynist, racist, neo-fascist ignoramus, simply because they were so desperate for a change from the status quo, and saw no hope of that in the current establishment candidates (once Sanders was gone).
I got this as wrong as anybody else. I really liked Sanders' policies but wanted Clinton to get the nomination because I thought Sanders was unelectable. Now I've come to the opinion that Sanders would probably have beaten Trump (although as a philosopher that statement makes me blush, as I know that counterfactuals like that are meaningless).
If we can get through the rest of the term without him managing to do too much permanent damage then I think there's a serious possibility that we may see the election of a genuine champion of the working class (rather than this current pretend one) in 2020. And then, maybe, the working poor of the US will be able to start to claw their way out of the misery they've been subjected to for the last couple of decades. — andrewk
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.