It's trivially true that humans need to be born for art to continue beyond the current generation. That is part of what I was getting at. But I did not impy, or at least did not intend to imply, that humans ought to be born for that purpose, or for that purpose alone. Art is just one of the many things that can make life worthwhile. Not just bearable or tolerable or as a relief, but worthwhile. — Sapientia
You talk in an objective, matter-of-fact manner, which is quite misleading. — Sapientia
Mediocrity is not "good enough". — darthbarracuda
Every one of us is in the condition that a sufficient amount of pain can befall us that leads us to question our existence. — darthbarracuda
Good, I'm glad you acknowledge this. But there is a difference between life being worthwhile once alive and creating more of it just so those creatures can experience worthwhile things. The latter is not at all necessary. — Thorongil
So you would prefer that I not try to speak as objectively and matter-of-factly? What a revealing demand, one to which I refuse to comply. I value objectivity, facts, and truth and make no apologies for it. I could be, possibly am, and certainly have been wrong about many things, but that doesn't mean I will stop telling what I take to be the truth or state what are the facts of the matter. Let's please not descend into some insufferable relativism here. — Thorongil
And, given that most people, throughout multiple generations, would say that they are glad to be alive, and that they do not regret being born, there is reason to believe that the yet-to-be-born stand a good chance of reaping the rewards and arriving at the same conclusion. — Sapientia
People don't suffer by virtue of being born — Wosret
Everyone suffers hardships, and feels terrible, maybe like dying, but yet, they then get over it. Nothing wrong with whining, and being at low points in life. I wouldn't attempting to lessen, or dismiss anyone's suffering, I was merely describing the fact that most people do feel those ways at times, but yeah, get over it. — Wosret
No, one doesn't suffer because of being born, it isn't possible to suffer without being born, and it may not be possible to be born and not suffer -- but this still doesn't mean that birth itself causes suffering. — Wosret
No one says "I wish I was never born" because they just can't get over how horrible birth was, but because of this thing that is now happening that their life led up to. — Wosret
Isn't the natalist, not the antinatalist, deciding for everyone how good life has to be in a sweeping generalization in order for it to be forced on people separate from them? The antinatalist literally decides nothing for anyone. — The Great Whatever
How many people would have to not want to be born in order for it to be not a good idea to reproduce and possibly create such a person. Suppose to start it was 100%. Then would there be a problem, in your view? — The Great Whatever
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