One of the things I really like about PlushForums is that when I click on a discussion it takes me to the last comment I viewed, and not just the first/last page.

Does Discourse do that? — Michael

Yes.

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict the regulators will never come over and try to curb stomp our lemonade stand into the ground, nor will they seize our data and read your musings one day and herald you as a prophet for having tried to save us from ourselves.

At this point you talk to yourself, agreeing with your wisdom, while everyone else wonders why.

If you're sure it's pearls before swine, just accept our stubborn moroness.

↪boethius I'm going to go out on a limb and predict the regulators will never come over and try to curb stomp our lemonade stand into the ground, nor will they seize our data and read your musings one day and herald you as a prophet for having tried to save us from ourselves. — Hanover

Seems to me honestly a cavalier attitude. A lot of controversial things are said on the forum, though maybe the idea is that will change.

From my perspective, UK doesn't seem a bastion of free speech right now, and the practical differences for incorporating somewhere else is very low.

At this point you talk to yourself, agreeing with your wisdom, while everyone else wonders why. — Hanover

The essential part is that it is wisdom, but I am talking with the people responding to me. For example, I'm talking with you right now.

If you're sure it's pearls before swine, just accept our stubborn moroness. — Hanover

What I am describing is the most basic business advice possible, traditionally called "sober deliberation", but probably described most succinctly and famously (at least in business circles) by Jeff Bezos writing to his shareholders that you can read directly on the SEC website:

Some decisions are consequential and irreversible or nearly irreversible – one-way doors – and these decisions must be made methodically, carefully, slowly, with great deliberation and consultation. If you walk through and don’t like what you see on the other side, you can’t get back to where you were before. We can call these Type 1 decisions. — To Amazon Shareholders, Jeff Bezos, SEC

Usually his letter is quoted for what he has to say about Type 2 decisions, that are reversible, as his main point is that a large organizations has a tendency to start treating every decision as Type one irreversible decisions. Why that is the usual purpose of the reference is because it is not controversial in the business community that you may want to put some thought into Type 1 decisions.

@Jamal, faced with a decision affecting all members of our community (but at least with the support of most, so there's that), is basically of the attitude "Jeff Bazos is full of shit and anyone who proposes an irreversible decision, like the jurisdiction of incorporation and type of incorporation, 'must be made methodically, carefully, slowly, with great deliberation and consultation' is a business moron that we should all ignore, to use the words of our most erudite and sharpest philosopher."

Seems to me honestly a cavalier attitude. — boethius

Living on the edge, flying by the seat in my pants, relying upon the kindness of strangers.

Living on the edge, flying by the seat in my pants, relying upon the kindness of strangers. — Hanover

Absolutely boethius approved.

But are you managing a limited liability company that affects other people's interests who entrust you with their philosophy-client needs?

But are you managing a limited liability company that affects other people's interests who entrust you with their philosophy-client needs? — boethius

Psst. It's been stated by the ultimate authority here that this particular line of topic needs to take a hard backseat, if you will. At least for some time. :smile:

Perhaps discuss in the Shoutbox, featuring my glorious ready-made meal selection, or consider engaging in a private conversation via the in-forum utilities.

faced with a decision affecting all members of our community (but at least with the support of most, so there's that), is basically of the attitude "Jeff Bazos is full of shit and anyone who proposes an irreversible decision, like the jurisdiction of incorporation and type of incorporation, 'must be made methodically, carefully, slowly, with great deliberation and consultation' is a business moron that we should all ignore — boethius

The verdict seems to be, not that the good sir is unaware of possibility of risks, but that his "concern" for such vary significantly from your own. Whether this is due to ignorance or a simple differing view of what is important in life, respecting the will of the man in question, the legal aspect of this topic is no longer our concern. Nor is it desired to be spoken of furthermore. If you're a "I told you so" person, well, perhaps you'll get your moment of glory. Or, perhaps everything will be just fine. Either way, sounds like smooth sailing ahead. :cool:

Psst. It's been stated by the ultimate authority here that this particular line of topic needs to take a hard backseat, if you will. At least for some time. — Outlander

If people just stopped citing me I'd stop citing what they have to say about their citations of me and in what appears to me as a frolicking back and forth, ebb and flow of legitimate discourse.

The verdict seems to be, not that the good sir is unaware of possibility of risks, but that his "concern" for such vary significantly from your own. — Outlander

For those interested, that is misunderstanding my whole point.

As I described, you can ascribe lower values to both likelihood and cost (it's a mix of art and science to evaluate risk, outside essentially laboratory controlled conditions), but the categories of risk litigation are clearly defined and have some non-zero likelihood of happening and incurring some cost.

In addition, one's tolerance for risk can be amazingly high.

Whatever the numbers, however, the rational framework is the same: Whatever numbers you put to the risk and whatever is the risk you are willing to tolerate. My point is just make sure number 1 is lower than number 2 and I'm lambasted as the most preposterous of business dullards.

The reason the debate dragged on is that @Jamal is risk averse, the main justification for making the business being to avoid liability. If he was high risk tolerant, absolutely willing to see how a bankruptcy plays out if it comes to that, live and learn and bounce back stronger with an interesting tale to tell, then there would be no tension in the exchange. As ye ol' business sea captain, I'd just be reminiscing about all ye ol' business sea monsters out there, and @Jamal would simply be eager to get out there on the business high seas, feel the salty business spray in his face, look out to the horizon wondering what business marvels and terrors may be out there to discover, come what may.

@Jamal would just be like "pray, boethius, tell us again of ye ol' business battle with ye ol' giant business squid with ye ol' giant business tentacles; how did ye contend with such a behemoth of the dark business deep?".

Then I'd be all like ... ah yes, Isabel Dos Santos was ye ol' business sea monsters name ... I remember her well I do.

You can read all about the saga of business cove in these two archives:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Q4Vfr5U7Lc7_k2ZK6GKgagyMSYeYEPPp?usp=share_link

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1SXU6VkygIWM14S4O-IQQUhlz41qYBjFH?usp=drive_link

Stay tuned!

So, your image troubled me, because I do want to be inclusive. But there's a limit: according to StatsCounter, Windows 7 is 2.5% of the worldwide market share: 2.36% in the US, 1.9% in Europe, 0.28% in Asia, 2.56% in Africa, less than 1% down under. In my opinion that's not enough to demand we abandon Discourse.

Unfortunately this means you'll have trouble using the new forum unless you just use your phone, or—and you should sit down before you read this suggestion—update your operating system.

Actually you can apparently use Firefox ESR on Windows 7, but that's just what ChatGPT told me.

https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desktop/worldwide

I have a feeling that the last time I used Windows it was Windows 7, and that feels like a whole lifetime ago: before I joined PF, before I got married, before I went housesitting around France, and before I had grey patches in my beard.

In my opinion that's not enough to demand we abandon Discourse. — Jamal

Absolutely. No one should have any ability to make you think otherwise.

Unfortunately this means you'll have trouble using the new forum — Jamal

Not necessarily. I've come to admire the nice features and design of Plush, but it's the interaction (the words sent and received) that are the reason I frequent this forum. Nothing else. Provided I can read plain text and respond accordingly, there's no real detriment.

Actually you could apparently use Firefox ESR — Jamal

I am (now) on the most up to date version of Firefox: 115.30.0esr. That's the acronym of "Extended Support Release" I had posted prior, yes. The result is the same. Which again is no concern of mine. I don't think the presence or absence of the occasional emoticon or having to right-click on an image to view it's full link is anything worth giving a second thought about. If it were a more widespread issue, that might actually result in more than one or two disengagements or disinclination to participate, then yes. But if the statistics you read are accurate, no such concerns are present.

It's fairly interesting how, despite every single other site I browse being basically normal with full features (banking, eCommerce, social media, etc.) this one platform decides to be like "ok let's turn his experience into something from the 1990s" for seemingly no reason at all. But again, perhaps motives I've yet to understand are justified.

I am (now) on the most up to date version of Firefox: 115.30.0esr. That's the acronym of "Extended Support Release" I had posted prior, yes. The result is the same. Which again is no concern of mine. I don't think the presence or absence of the occasional emoticon or having to right-click on an image to view it's full link is anything worth giving a second thought about. If it were a more widespread issue, that might actually result in more than one or two disengagements or disinclination to participate, then yes. But if the statistics you read are accurate, no such concerns are present.

It's fairly interesting how, despite every single other site I browse being basically normal with full features (banking, eCommerce, social media, etc.) this one platform decides to be like "ok let's turn his experience into something from the 1990s" for seemingly no reason at all. But again, perhaps motives I've yet to understand are justified. — Outlander

Do you have JavaScript turned off? Discourse is basically a JavaScript application.

In any case I think you might have more trouble than you think, I'm sorry to tell you. It won't just be a matter of visual style, emojis and so on.

Do you have JavaScript turned off? Discourse is basically a JavaScript application. — Jamal

I do not. I can browse most popular websites easily and with full functionality: Facebook, Twitter (X). Amazon, Google, banking websites, etc. Discourse is literally the only site I can recall that gives me the "your browser is out of date" spiel (along with reduced functionality) I have ever seen on this PC I've had for 5 years now.

In any case I think you might have more trouble than you think, I'm sorry to tell you. It won't just be a matter of visual style, emojis and so on. — Jamal

If a topic engages me enough, I'll find a way. I again have a phone, and in fact an old tablet I can tether to the Wi-Fi, if need be.

Even if my access on PC ends up being read-only, it takes 2 seconds to pull up the thread I may desire replying to on mobile. Not an issue for me. Though others (if there are any) may object to such on ideological grounds. Not me, however. :smile:

I can browse most popular websites easily and with full functionality: Facebook, Twitter (X). Amazon, Google, banking websites, etc. Discourse is literally the only site I can recall that gives me the "your browser is out of date" spiel (along with reduced functionality) I have ever seen on this PC I've had for 5 years now. — Outlander

Those websites you mention are traditional multi-page applications, whereas Discourse is an SPA. That's the difference. I recall you and @Michael and I were talking about SPAs vs MPAs a couple of years ago.

And now, your worst fears have come true and TPF is becoming an SPA.

And now, your worst fears have come true and TPF is becoming an SPA. — Jamal

Well, shoot. I'm just one poster. See what others have to say and go from there I guess. I mean, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, right. Or no, that's not quite right. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." Or something "Star Warsy" like that.

Arguably, the banking site I use is SPA. You log in and everything most people use routinely seems to be SPA. Sure there's links to terms and other features and whatnot. I consider my activity here as a hobby. Mostly for my benefit. Most people elsewhere disappoint my expectations to understand and engage with ideas I have. But it's not their fault.

And either way. You're not the sole vanguard of intellectual spaces online, need I remind you. :smile:

You're not the sole vanguard of intellectual spaces online, need I remind you. — Outlander

I'm working on it.

@Jamal

Perhaps this question may be obvious – will the "Currently Reading" thread also be part of the new TPF version on Discourse.org?

It helps me a lot to remember what I read during the year. Furthermore, thanks for your comments and recommendations; I discovered good and intriguing authors.

Yes, and I want to keep it in a category which is not hidden from the main page.

Yes, and I want to keep it in a category which is not hidden from the main page. — Jamal

Wonderful! What a great idea! :up:

Yeah, I've learned a lot from that thread too. I'm sure there are several books I've read because someone posted about them there. I've added several of your own choices to my reading list, though inevitably it has taken me a long time to get around to reading them.

Indeed, it takes time to get around to reading them. The issue (though I hesitate to call it an "issue") arises when you discover a new style of literature that deeply captivates you. I planned to read many Russian writers this year, and the result has been good but far away from what I expected. I discovered authors from Eastern European countries whose books captivated me to the point of becoming very fond of them.

Glad to hear the Currently Reading thread will continue.

Discourse announces an AI Assistant for using their software

@Jamal, any plans for the use of AI in our new home?

Here's an answer to the conundrum - integrate the AI into the chat. — Banno

Rather than worrying about how much of a post is generated by AI, it might be useful to have the AI as a participant in the forum, so that the sort of questions at which it excels can be asked and answered quite openly.

I object to that idea. I would rather have it be a resource for people who use it to supplement their limitations. Don't we all disagree enough without adding an agent that does not need to explain itself?

Fine. I can see a benefit in making the AI's input explicit rather than covert. Lets's see what Jamal's thoughts are.

How does it not become a form of arguing on the basis of authority?

Is there a modal logic answer to that question?

Fine. I can see a benefit in making the AI's input explicit rather than covert. Lets's see what Jamal's thoughts are. — Banno

There is no fun in playing chess software at grandmaster level. Sometimes it's fun to set it at moron level so you can beat it and feel smart.

So, where I'm going with this is AM, artificial moronism. You have the software say stupid shit and you get to ridicule it and show it what an idiot it is.

I mean that does sound more fun than having it constantly winning every argument.

I know what you're thinking. This post is from an AM generator. Nope, it's truly from yours truly.

, , you both presume an adversarial model of discourse. Now fun as that is, it might be interesting to explore other possibilities...

any plans for the use of AI in our new home? — Banno

Rather than worrying about how much of a post is generated by AI, it might be useful to have the AI as a participant in the forum, so that the sort of questions at which it excels can be asked and answered quite openly. — Banno

There are several AI features included, and we may use some of them, but they won't replace one's own use of AI for research, and I won't be paying to integrate GPT5 or Claude or Gemini, since users can access those LLMs through their own accounts. The AI features will be powered only by the free LLM provided on Discourse hosting.

Additionally, hosted customers can use the CDCK Hosted Small LLM (Qwen 2.5) pre-configured in the settings page. This is an open-weights LLM hosted by Discourse, ready for use to power AI features. — meta.discourse.org

The features are:

1. AI Summaries (Topic Summaries)
Automatically generates short summaries of long threads, helping users catch up without reading entire discussions.

2. Semantic Search
Search powered by embeddings rather than keywords, returning relevant results even when queries use different wording.

3. AI Moderation
Detects spam, toxicity, NSFW material, and problematic content, reducing moderator workload.

4. AI Bot
A chat-style assistant that users can interact with. It can answer questions using forum content or general knowledge, depending on the model used.

5. Post Editing Assistant
Suggests rewrites, clarifications, translations, or tone adjustments while composing or editing posts.

6. AI Autofill / Autocomplete
Offers context-aware writing suggestions to help users complete sentences or refine ideas as they type.

7. AI Tools for Staff
Provides moderators/admins with tools such as user-history summaries and condensed views of long discussions.

8. AI Tagging / Categorization
Automatically assigns tags or recommends categories, improving forum organisation with minimal manual effort.

9. Related Topics (AI-powered)
Suggests similar past threads based on semantic similarity rather than keyword matching.

10. AI Translation
Provides instant translation of posts or post drafts, supporting multilingual community participation.

In other words, it's not for doing philosophy but for (a) managing the forum, (b) providing help to users ("how do I update my avatar?"), and (c) other unobtrusive useful things like summarizing topics, translation, and suggesting titles.

We can turn all those features off, but some of them are too useful. Those who don't like the encroachment of AI might not like the "Summarize topic" feature, but I actually think it'll be good. People are often too lazy to read a whole discussion before commenting, and sometimes it's so long that nobody is going to do it. In those cases its better that they have an idea of what's been said than no idea at all, no?

As for using it for moderation: nobody is going to be banned or anything by the AI bot. It will probably flag problematic content and then the human team will review it.