• Meta
    185

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n-ojOnrfYk
    From the essay:
    "Although Ziegler has a credible explanation for everything that's happened--Harford's harassment, Nick Nightingale's beating, Mandy's death--we don't ever really know whether he's telling the truth or lying to cover up Mandy's murder. The script carefully withholds any conclusive evidence that would let us feel comfortably certain either way. But Ziegler does have suspiciously privileged access to details of the case: "The door was locked from the inside, the police are happy, end of story! [dismissive lip fart.]" He also claims to be dropping his façade and coming clean a few too many times to be believed: "I have to be completely frank," "Bill, please--no games," and finally, "All right, Bill, let's... let's... let's cut the bullshit, all right?" And notice how he introduces his explanation: "Suppose I were to tell you..." [emphasis mine]. He's not being "frank"; he's offering Bill an escape, a plausible, face-saving explanation for the girl's death to assuage his unexpectedly agitated conscience. (And it's one of the few things that Bill has a hard time buying--watch the way his hand adheres to his cheek and slowly slides off his face as he rises to his feet and walks dazedly across the room, trying to absorb the incredible coincidence Ziegler's asking him to swallow.)"

    And 3 days after finishing the movie Kubrick died. The police are happy end of story. We have a credible explanation for everything that's happened.
    This is the best movie of all times (for me).
  • Cavacava
    2.4k


    I think the action in EWS is presented as linear, but it is actually a reenactment, which only becomes evident as the story progresses. I think something of this sort explains what occurs, what is going on in EWS.

    The main character, Bill, is recounting his fantasy to Alice after she shares hers with him and we are experiencing his fantasy unravel as if were reality.

    Alice's desire for the Naval Officer, (semen?). A man in a uniform (authority), a fantasy that drives her wildly horny, which she can only satisfy with Bill (love) . They play a drugged truth game which forces Bill's fantasy out in the open.

    If this is possible, then Alice is Marion, Domino, and the lady at the orgy in Bill's fantasy. This may explain the incredible coincidence of events and their equally amazing refutation a day later.
  • 0af
    44
    They don't necessarily need to believe in a literal Satan or a God for the results to be the same and they may not even be consciously aware that they're attempting to justify their greed as some kind of righteous standing-up for one's self.John Days

    As a "Satanist" (or close enough), I think I can clarify something I find not quite right in your analysis above. If we own ourselves and are our own kings and popes, we don't need a justification for our "greed." Satanists (if they aren't what I'd call confused pseudo-Satanists) consciously embrace selfishness as the "truth" of human nature. As we see it, we do consciously what others do unwittingly. Others do the will of their Father, be it God or some abstract idea that will finally fix the fallen and broken world. But this "Father" is just their own disavowed desire to lay down the law, their own "greed." As I see it, the more interesting of us humans are more attracted to status than sensual pleasure. So the religious-type (from my or "our" point of view) is getting his kicks from a sense of righteousness. In short, the non-Satanist justifies his disavowed greed (for status if not money) as some kind of standing up for his god or principles, which is to say for his alienated or disavowed self. The "righteousness" or pride of the Satanist is in dropping the pretense of speaking for the distant Father and instead claiming the position himself (I and the Father are one) without excuse or apology. So of course it tweaks my vanity to hear Satanists described as stooping to justify their own desire and therefore their lives in their essence. Hence this interruption, which is intended in a friendly spirit.
  • szardosszemagad
    150
    I continue my quest of watching this long, boring, drawn-out, but well acted movie. I am up to the point where he returns the tux and cloak to the rental shop, without the mask. Then I fell asleep hopelessly again.

    I shall attempt to watch another segment of the movie soon.
  • John Days
    146
    As a "Satanist" (or close enough), I think I can clarify something I find not quite right in your analysis above. If we own ourselves and are our own kings and popes, we don't need a justification0af

    Then there would be no need to use Satan as your mascot.

    for our "greed."0af

    You put greed in quotes like it's not a real thing that all humans struggle with on a daily basis.

    Satanists (if they aren't what I'd call confused pseudo-Satanists) consciously embrace selfishness as the "truth" of human nature.0af

    If that were the case you wouldn't call it selfishness. You'd just talk about behavior like stealing or taking as though it were normal. But all humans know what injustice feels like, and all humans know that unjust taking isn't good.

    As I see it, the more interesting of us humans are more attracted to status than sensual pleasure.0af

    Yeah, it's interesting unless that desire for status and sensual pleasure directly inconveniences you. I'd like to see you give an explanation for how someone who steals from you personally or rapes a loved-one of yours is doing something interesting.

    So the religious-type (from my or "our" point of view) is getting his kicks from a sense of righteousness0af

    Any time you call the police, or use the courts, you're trying to do the same. A desire for justice and order isn't a religious thing. That's just what hypocrites tell themselves so that they can think, "I'm not bad like you because I'm not religious".

    The "righteousness" or pride of the Satanist is in dropping the pretense of speaking for the distant Father and instead claiming the position himself (I and the Father are one) without excuse or apology.0af

    Except, dropping any pretense of accountability for one's actions as a symbol of freedom is exactly what I suggested as the psychology behind why satanists choose satan as their mascot. You don't owe anyone any apology for anything you may choose to do, because you're a free guy, right?

    So of course it tweaks my vanity to hear Satanists described as stooping to justify their own desire and therefore their lives in their essence. Hence this interruption, which is intended in a friendly spirit.0af

    I don't see it as an interruption at all. I see it as a challenge. I look forward to your response.
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