• Wayfarer
    26.1k
    It's more that you seem to deplore modernity, see it as a step backwards somehowJanus

    Generally not, except in this specific regard. The solution surely comprises recognizing it. At least that is a starting point.


    the physical is not merely mechanical and mindless as has been assumed by the scientific orthodoxy.Janus

    My point exactly!


    The problem, though, is always going to be finding clear evidence for such a thing, and being able to develop a clear model of just what might be going on"Janus

    Evidence and models are again appeals to empiricism, don’t you see? Not all philosophical analyses can be expressed in those terms.

    As for whether there is a ‘crisis of meaning’ I think it’s axiomatic, but I wouldn’t want try and persuade those who don’t agree.

    As it is the basic argument of this thread has a clear provenance in the sources quoted.
  • Janus
    17.9k
    the physical is not merely mechanical and mindless as has been assumed by the scientific orthodoxy. — Janus


    My point exactly!
    Wayfarer

    Actually on second thought "scientific orthodoxy" seems a bit strong. "Popular image of the scientific view" seems more apt. What individual scientists believe would not be so easy to discover. Also science has done very well with mechanical models so the methodology is useful, even though it comes up against limits in some areas.

    Evidence and models are again appeals to empiricism, don’t you see? Not all philosophical analyses can be expressed in those terms.

    As for whether there is a ‘crisis of meaning’ I think it’s axiomatic, but I wouldn’t want try and persuade those who don’t agree.

    As it is the basic argument of this thread has a clear provenance in the sources quoted.
    Wayfarer

    It is scientific evidence which is motivating Levin's work, and he constantly says that mere speculation won't do for definitive views. On the other hand we all have our own inventive beliefs about the nature of things. The difference between you and me seems to be that I don't take my own intuitive convictions to be reasons for anyone else to believe as I do.

    When you say you think the crisis of meaning is axiomatic I think you misuse the term. What is axiomatic is what is self-evident to anyone, and that others disagree shows that the belief in a meaning crisis is not axiomatic. Also the belief in the meaning crisis is a conclusion you have reached on the basis of what you take to be evidence and is hence a conclusion, not an axiom.

    What you claim as a "provenance" is just a compendium of others' intuitive convictions that trot out regularly apparently because you find them copacetic, chosen simply because they align with your intutions. Why would you expect that to count as convincing evidence to the unbiased?
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