I have been watching a documentary on the Children of God cult and pretty much everything would apply to the cult of capitalism/materialism that the West loves so much. — unimportant

I would simply disagree. There's a quote about tradition, that I don't quite 'believe' but it seems to apply to many things you're taking issue with: Tradition is experiment which worked.

Again, not a heuristic even, but the tradition of Christmas is such that all comers seems to get involved, even those with alter religious affiliations. I don't quite see what you do.

I don't quite see what you do. — AmadeusD

That goes without saying. :)

Haha, fair enough.

What are you suggesting with this thread? It seems like its a bit of a conspiracy, which I have no problem with - but let's say its all legit - what then?

There are a few common themes to cults that I think you're missing.

1. Isolation from the rest of society, family, and friends for 'the message'.
2. Zero tolerance for questions or doubts. Loyalty to feelings and mantras replace thinking.
3. Promises self-actualization. You will become who you were meant to be.
4. Anyone who leaves 'wasn't really part of the group' or is dismissed as inconsequential. You can do no wrong by being in the cult, anything that rejects the cult is wrong.
5. Imaginative thinking positioned as reality.

Now, can people form cults around beliefs that are not in themselves cultish? Sure. Political parties can be cults, though politics itself is not a cult. And I'm sure there are people who form cultish viewpoints on capitalism as well.

A key to cults is a sense of authoritarianism and unquestionable moral certitude. "I am right because I'm just, and your alternative viewpoints and disagreements are innately wrong, thus should be silenced without debate." The West is largely founded on Democratic values and rights. You are free to bash capitalism all you want and no one will ban you. I just don't see 'the West' as being a cult as it largely avoids authoritarianism.

Cults indoctrinate by sending out propaganda with their embedded beliefs. Capitalist society does just the same with the media industry and all the tropes of earn as much money as possible (far beyond is necessary for a comfortable life) and you will have all the trappings of success. The fast car, the big house, the perfect family, the perfect woman/husband.

Even if not everyone tries to be the next Gordon Gecko/Wolf of Wall Street, the message is still instilled that more money = better. Just like not every woman tries to be a supermodel, just seeing what is put on a pedestal in society instils beliefs in what the lay person should aspire to.

Why are millions/billions on anti-depressants because they hate their life and so much money poured into this? To keep the worker bees productive. Also all the science is bent on 'disease' models where things 'just happen' without there being a root cause. I would propose this is just propaganda to cover up that the root cause is the rotten capitalist society that it must protect at all costs. Science will only observe what it has been funded to, which is decided by politics, so it will be biased only for particular results. — unimportant

I think the more sinister element of capitalism is the banality of most people’s ambition which they don’t seem to mind; forget Gecko and supermodels. For most people it involves ceaseless spending to participate in the conventions - a house, children, vacations, transportation, healthcare, always having to spend and spend more just to have the basics. Often treading water to stay afloat. And they may even consider themselves fortunate.

I don’t think it’s a cult. It’s a dominant worldview that operates differently. A cult functions through exclusion and authoritarian control over behaviour and member's interactions. Capitalism is open, even if constraining, and it doesn’t seek to limit people’s choices directly. It does so indirectly as a by-product, through the blunt mechanism of a user-pays society.

I have made no secret here that I hate capitalism and think it is the cause of most of societies ills. — unimportant

Your OP reads as if we are experiencing absolute capitalism. Far from it.

There are many aspects of our society, hence aspects of our lives, that are not dictated by profit and high-risk high-reward principles. One of the greatest tragedies of the growth of capitalism is that we learned to hate governance and the leaders of our countries. Nothing the government does can be trusted. And so, we destroy ourselves because, apparently, not even medicine and science can cure idiocy.

If our society truly behaves like it's one big planet-size stock market, nothing, and I mean nothing that a fail-safe back-up plan can save us. Life would be one generation removed from extinction.

Your description is accurate, but as it pertains to the OP's question, I see it more a difference of degree/intensity rather than a fundamental difference in goal.

What are you suggesting with this thread? It seems like its a bit of a conspiracy, which I have no problem with - but let's say its all legit - what then? — AmadeusD

Hehe, although we are often at odds your counterpoints do draw out my own views better.

Not conspiracy as in hidden hands are pulling the strings like the Smoking Man from X-files. More that, as another mentioned, the inner machinations of capitalism are far more sinister than most average people take them to be. Ok that sounds conspiratorial but it is that of the outcome being so futile rather than a commentary on how it is done. I don't think it is by intent but more that politicians are desperate to keep the status quo even if it will lead to destruction down the road, so long as they get elected next term and capitalism is just a train running down the tracks that they don't want to stop. Similar to the current AI race.

Also it has been discussed at length in most communist literature so I am just aping what they have written at much greater length - that the average lay person is doomed for a vacuous and unfulfilling life if following capitalist ideals. The 'conspiracy' if you wish to go with that, is that all the propaganda of the media is designed so that the average jo does not question this and just keeps on the mindless treadmill. Any problem they might have is said to be they didn't try hard enough or some mental disease that just manifested magically without known cause when the root cause is rotten capitalism.

This would be the same as cults, where any questioning of their ideology is put down to the evil 'other' out there, with their beliefs and actions never being brought into question.

There are a few common themes to cults that I think you're missing. — Philosophim

Yes good points and you do highlight some nuts and bolts differences but as per the reply above, and LuckyR's good summation, I was not proposing an exact match, just drawing attention to the malevolent side of capitalism which shares similarities to cults.

I think the more sinister element of capitalism is the banality of most people’s ambition which they don’t seem to mind; forget Gecko and supermodels. For most people it involves ceaseless spending to participate in the conventions - a house, children, vacations, transportation, healthcare, always having to spend and spend more just to have the basics. Often treading water to stay afloat. And they may even consider themselves fortunate.

I don’t think it’s a cult. It’s a dominant worldview that operates differently. A cult functions through exclusion and authoritarian control over behaviour and member's interactions. Capitalism is open, even if constraining, and it doesn’t seek to limit people’s choices directly. It does so indirectly as a by-product, through the blunt mechanism of a user-pays society. — Tom Storm

Yes good explanation of the average experience of the capitalist wage slave. It isn't that the top 1% are what everyone is expecting to achieve but when the cultural cues are fed to you that these things are the highest good in society then even those far lower down on the totem pole are going to feel that social pressure to confirm. Also if they fail at this rigged game, like a lot of society will, then depression and other mental issues manifest.

Most people don't expect to be buying $100+k cars but it is that this causes an indoctrination to aspire for more and more and more. So for them it might be replacing their 1 year old car for a new one just because the adverts tell you it has x,y,z new feature and Bill next door has recent bought a new one so they now feel pressure to 'fit in' as per the saying 'keeping up with the Jones's' (don't know if that is a common term where y'all are from but it is where I am).

Your OP reads as if we are experiencing absolute capitalism. Far from it. — L'éléphant

Covered in my other replies, above and below. Also, to add, it may not be the authoritarianism of cults but the insidiousness is in the subtlety that they have duped the masses into thinking they are actually bettering themselves when actually the game is rigged to make them worse off and better only the top 1%.

The brainwashing methods through propaganda to create conformity are what I was highlighting as similar.

Your description is accurate, but as it pertains to the OP's question, I see it more a difference of degree/intensity rather than a fundamental difference in goal. — LuckyR

Yea this is pretty much it. I was not seriously asserting the likeness was 1:1 the same. The mere fact that the mainstream is the dominant view it would have to have differences I would imagine, in the general workings of how it operates and disseminates information to the masses on such a large scale, compared to cults which by their name assumes they must be small and divergent from the main view of society at large.

The title was mainly to draw attention to the likenesses that neither are interested in aligning with reality and capitalism has just as many neurotic and destructive ideologies as so called cults.

What rational purpose do they serve? — unimportant

You criticize this. Excellent. I agree with much of what you've said. However, can you say what rational goal you're pursuing by pursuing only rational goals?

Pragmatism is a wonderful tool for the useful. But why is the useful necessary? Let me give you an example. There's a person. There's an incoming sum of signals. The person processes them using exclusively pure and reasonable methods (that have been proven and tested). Excellent, this is rational and useful. But what next? What of it?

Perhaps "Happiness"? But happiness isn't something that can be achieved. Perhaps superiority or power or the opportunity to produce the greatest number of offspring? And what next?

I personally call this state the "biorobot state." Signal, algorithmic processing, and action. If an error occurs, it's an error in the algorithm, taken as a method. Where is the personality here? Where is the person here? Where is the authenticity or the self here?

It is just they managed to subjugate most of the world by might and now what is considered 'normal' are just their arbitrary cultural practices as 'might is right' and so they say what goes into the history books and becomes tradition and law and acceptable ideals. — unimportant

You criticize capitalism, and I don't like it either, but it turns out that you're criticizing capitalism within its own pragmatic values. This looks like an attempt to refute the concept of "good" using the concept of "good."

Yes, it was precisely capitalism that pragmatically gave rise to these cults (the opium of the masses). And they exist because they themselves serve as props. Thanks to these props, capitalism holds together and justifies itself. If we point out the alienness and irrationality of these props, then at first glance, capitalism itself collapses. But no, it doesn't collapse. It generates new props (human rights). And then new ones (gender reassignment rights), and so on. Capitalism is incredibly resilient, precisely because at its core lies the pursuit of what is useful. Truth is what works. As soon as it stops working, it is immediately discarded.

And if we simply take the same tools that make capitalism resilient, then nothing other than capitalism can be born from them.