Prayer might be seen as living communion with God, while meditation is a reflective or preparatory exercise that may incline one to prayer, yet is not itself the act of addressing the divine. I suspect many sometimes confuse the two, meditating when they think they are praying, and praying when they think they are meditating. That said, I think they are related but much of this will flow from the definitions you hold.

One might ask this: how many who presume to pray are truly opening themselves to God, and how many are merely rehearsing their own desires, making nothing more than a crass shopping list of wants?

Partial disclosure: I have never prayed all that often, and have not mediated in years.

Maybe so, maybe not. Meditation toward God might be indistinguishable from prayer toward God. If not toward God, then toward the ineffable.

Prayer can and maybe should be more than a shopping list of wishes and needs--depending on the religious sophistication of the person praying. "Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz" is not what I would call a worthy prayer. (Sorry, Ms. Joplin). I'm not Catholic, but I gather that people sometimes say the Rosary in a quite perfunctory manner, though that's only external appearances. The prayer series may help them in a meditative or prayerful way.

Prayer should certainly not be transactional -- "Dear God, IF I do not fornicate with (list names, even though the omnipresent God will be there each time) this week, would you send $3,000 for me to make the overdue mortgage payments?" Does God make deals like Donald? Does God care $3000 whether you fornicate with (list names) or not? Would God be moved by a successful henceforth and forever more vow of chastity? Perhaps your forfeiting the house to the bank is part of God's plan? Maybe He is making arrangements to house a homeless immigrant family? You want to help God, don't you?

Fortunately for our earthly reputations, most of pray silently, so we aren't leaving behind a string of public confessions.

I don't know how many people meditate for "spiritual" purposes. I found mediation most useful for maintaining mental health.

There are monks and nuns who pray for a living. They do pray for specific needs (usually not their own, but on behalf of others) and I gather that they pray toward God.

BTW, from my limited experience I find somebody else's prayers perfectly fine. If the Psalms have been in use for thousands of years, it's because they are effective--for us, especially.

It depends on the perspective. From that of the supplicant, they are entirely different as prayer is a communication with another while meditation is at best a communication with oneself. However from the 3rd person perspective, they are essentially identical.

Have you read any of my thread: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/16333/can-the-supernatural-and-religious-elements-of-buddhism-be-extricated?

There is quite some overlap.

There was a book called 'flow' by a guy with a really long eastern name which said that essentially ALL flow activities are the same, be it meditation, playing in the pocket, whatever. I don't think I would agree with that, but an interesting concept to explore. Just being 'in the zone' is not the same as being enlightened although they might share some similarities. I know this is not what you are asking but it is related in comparing 'flow states' with one another.

In my thread I have discussed many times that both eastern and western religious people have reached what might be called a state of enlightenment. A notable figure of the west is Meister Eckhart. He would not have meditated I doubt, probably doing traditional prayer, but still achieved some higher state of consciousness. I don't know much about him but noticed him mentioned several times as an awakened one of the western tradition by contemporary voices.

Prayer might be seen as living communion with God, while meditation is a reflective or preparatory exercise that may incline one to prayer, yet is not itself the act of addressing the divine. I suspect many sometimes confuse the two, meditating when they think they are praying, and praying when they think they are meditating. That said, I think they are related but much of this will flow from the definitions you hold.

One might ask this: how many who presume to pray are truly opening themselves to God, and how many are merely rehearsing their own desires, making nothing more than a crass shopping list of wants? — Tom Storm

I like how you frame the difference between prayer and meditation. Where meditation is a sort of "warm-up" for the "main show", which is prayer.

And your point about the degree to which meditation and prayer overlap being dependent on the definitions one holds. This is an interesting statement and makes me think.

Your closing question though, regarding how many actually pray for a closer relationship with God, is perhaps the most important and personal part of your response. So primary to what prayer and meditation are all about in the first place.

Any insights you can shed on this subject is valued. — Bret Bernhoft

I answered no. They are not the same thing. With prayers, we take our chances, with humility, to be heard. We acknowledge the power and graciousness of the God. So, whatever we pray for, asking for help or giving thanks, we are exposing our vulnerability and fears while being aware that we might not be heard after all because God has other plans for us.

Even if they're not exactly the same, I'd say they're quite close.

A lot of meditation forms involve the repetition of mantras, which is quite similar to the citation of prayers and a way of influencing the subconscious, which can be very powerful in its effect if practiced with discipline.

...from my limited experience I find somebody else's prayers perfectly fine. — BC

Prayer is a beautiful act of union with greater mysteries. Which seems to happen or occur within the person praying, first and foremost.

It would be difficult to convince me there is such a thing as an "ugly prayer" or "distasteful prayer". Especially when praying is done with sincerity.

Like you said, another person's prayers are perfectly fine.

Even if they're not exactly the same, I'd say they're quite close. — Tzeentch

Jesus. Did you measure the distance in kilometers or feet?

I say, this is one of those cases where any difference seals it, and no amount of negotiation as to how far or close the definition is should change the nature of each.

I say, this is one of those cases where any difference seals it, and no amount of negotiation as to how far or close the definition is should change the nature of each. — L'éléphant

But doesn't that just beg the question? Ours is a world of words where we insist upon definitions to all things including those which are not necessarily amenable to precise definition. And sometimes the only reason we define some things is for the very purpose of comparing and contrasting theme to other things. And is there really any consensus regarding the nature of either? Ultimately, both seem to be directed toward the stillness of being and that may be all we can truly say about the nature of either.