Western countries are not authoritarian, they are democratic. — Tzeentch

Democracies can turn also authoritarian. Case point is what is happening (or attempted) in the US, but Hungary is another example.

The 'hidden authoritarianism' the OP is talking about is the corruption of the democratic system and not actual authoritarianism. — Tzeentch

Rule of the rich is called Plutocracy.

Best example of plutocracy is when how many votes you have is dependent on how much taxes you pay (and hence how much income you get). Then basically it's an integral part of the system.

Calling it 'authoritarianism' is a misdirection, shifting the blame to people like Trump (who was democratically elected), and an attempt at perpetuating the myth that democracies would somehow be immune to corruption if it weren't for figures such as him. — Tzeentch

Corruption is a complex issue. And indeed it doesn't need authoritarianism, but my point is authoritarianism goes many times hand in hand with corruption. Corruption can been indeed very institutionalized and it's origins are interesting. Do people in general obey the laws and pay their taxes? What is the attitude towards paying bribes? How common is it? If the police stops you, do you give him a bribe?

The truth is of course that western democracies have arrived at the terminal end stage of corruption — Tzeentch

Terminal stage? Well, many times everything seems to feel like this is the end.

US healthcare cost is a poor example to illustrate any simple concept since the reasons for it's outlier status are multiple and complicated. — LuckyR

Everything is complicated, yet the simple fact is that US health care costs are the highest in the World whereas the healthcare system is mediocre and the US doesn't have universal health care, the only developed and industrialized country without it.

That in itself tells a lot.

the healthcare system is mediocr — ssu

Outcomes are worse. That doesn't equate to "mediocre.". Why exactly outcomes are worse is an unanswered question. One hypothesis is that the American population is sicker for some reason.

American and German doctors compared notes trying to discover why American COVID outcomes were so much worse. Neither group could pinpoint the cause.

Hungary nor the US is authoritarian. That's just a pure cope from people who are mad that the democratic process didn't produce the outcome they wanted.

Outcomes are worse. That doesn't equate to "mediocre.". Why exactly outcomes are worse is an unanswered question. One hypothesis is that the American population is sicker for some reason. — frank

Well, it isn't yet equivalent to a Third World country's health care system. One hypothesis is that there simply isn't so much preventive health care treatment. Or how about food safety?

I think it just starts compiling up in a spectacular fashion. One huge reason is simply that any system that is created to make a profit will make it expensive. Health care of the population shouldn't be viewed as an opportunity to get profits, but a service that the government should provide for it's people.

Hungary nor the US is authoritarian. That's just a pure cope from people who are mad that the democratic process didn't produce the outcome they wanted. — Tzeentch

Nope, it's actually the actions that the leaders do. Do the leaders stay in their described role in the system or start taking power which they shouldn't have? Is the judiciary independent? Is political plurality accepted or not?

Well, Trump's DOJ and it's actions are a case point. Just to give one example.

One hypothesis is that there simply isn't so much preventive health care treatment. Or how about food safety? — ssu

Both. A good diet is more expensive. Ironically, the American problem with obesity is caused by low quality, ultra-processed crap.

Health care of the population shouldn't be viewed as an opportunity to get profits, — ssu

Maybe, but I think there is some benefit to competition in healthcare, although since COVID, American healthcare providers have been coalescing into mega-entities. The advantage to that is that huge operations (spanning across half the country in some cases) can take control of drug costs.

Ironically, the American problem with obesity is caused by low quality, ultra-processed crap. — frank

Would be interesting to know just why and how it has come to that.

since COVID, American healthcare providers have been coalescing into mega-entities. The advantage to that is that huge operations (spanning across half the country in some cases) can take control of drug costs. — frank

Better to have a single buyer. And why is there advertising for prescription medication?

Would be interesting to know just why and how it has come to that. — ssu

There's a documentary about it. One of the factors is that the Silent generation didn't have enough to eat when they were young. They didn't have much of a concept of a healthy diet.

And why is there advertising for prescription medication? — ssu

I know. It's ridiculous.

The US system has been irreconcilably broken for decades. The idea that Trump meaningfully changed anything is laughable.

The US system has been irreconcilably broken for decades. The idea that Trump meaningfully changed anything is laughable. — Tzeentch

Broken, but working. Usually the Presidents became multimillionaires through writing books and giving speeches. They didn't become billionaires...when acting as president. Your argument is obviously that "this isn't anything new under the sun". But it actually is. When the corruption is in the hundreds of millions, when it's open and when nothing happens, that's the worrying issue.

Or you think it's ordinary, that the President of the US sues the IRS for 10 billion dollars for leaked tax information? You really think that it is totally ordinary, the typical thing? It's laughable if you think it is.

What Trump has done so far is small fry compared to what previous administrations got up to. They destroyed entire regions of the world on false grounds.

If Trump is stealing large amounts of cash from the evil empire, he's doing the entire world a favor. :lol:

I can just hear those sad violins playing as the poor Americans are left to wonder how they'll pay for all the bombs they like to throw on goatherds and rice farmers.

It also has nothing to do with authoritarianism. It's just good old fashioned corruption.

Everything is complicated, yet the simple fact is that US health care costs are the highest in the World whereas the healthcare system is mediocre and the US doesn't have universal health care, the only developed and industrialized country without it.

That in itself tells a lot

Well, your conclusions are, as you mention, simple. Overly simplistic in my experience.

One thing is true, which is healthcare in the US costs a lot. Almost all of the reasons for that (which are quite numerous and varied), actually have nothing to do with the actual healthcare itself, rather in systems that surround it. Insurance company financial motivations, drug and equipment company profiteering, high malpractice concerns, cultural style, high self abuse rates, heroic attempts to address problems that go untreated elsewhere, an unhealthier population to treat are just a small list of reasons for high costs in the US.

I agree with your exact wording that the SYSTEM is mediocre, but many reading your post will read your words and come away with the understanding that you're saying the HEALTHCARE is mediocre, which it is not.

https://www.politico.eu/article/friedrich-merz-is-right-to-reject-germanys-nuclear-phase-out-says-iea-chief-fatih-birol/

Chancellor Friedrich Merz’s admission that Germany’s nuclear phase-out was a “serious strategic mistake” has won an emphatic endorsement from Fatih Birol, executive director of the International Energy Agency.

For me, this was not mistake but rather a crime: the closure of the atomic stations has lead to an increase of oil consumption and buying the oil in Germany, and in fact this means that Germany is now funding the Putin's war in Ukraine (exchange with Saudi Arabia). And it is very possible that the decision to close the stations was payed by the Putin's lobby (as an example, Gerhard Schröder has been working in Russia for a long time).


https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/two-thirds-germans-against-shutting-down-last-nuclear-power-plants-point-survey

Two thirds of Germans against shutting down last nuclear power plants at this point – survey

. Almost all of the reasons for that (which are quite numerous and varied), actually have nothing to do with the actual healthcare itself, rather in systems that surround it. Insurance company financial motivations, drug and equipment company profiteering, high malpractice concerns, cultural style, high self abuse rates, heroic attempts to address problems that go untreated elsewhere, an unhealthier population to treat are just a small list of reasons for high costs in the US. — LuckyR

The problem is that the system is designed for the insurance companies and in general for companies with financial motivations around the health care sector, not for the citizens themselves. This is the real fault here. Basically those that benefit from the current system hold dearly on it. Here comes to play the power of lobbying in the US Congress. Why? Isn't the Congress elected by the people? Wouldn't lowering health care costs be something that all Americans would agree on?

One thing can be that the Americans simply don't trust any improvements happening and just assume anything new promised will be worse than now. But I think that is a minor cause. I think here the fault is the entrenched party system, all that gerimandering and a polarized political discourse. The brazen way how Americans who support either party will overlook any criticism of their own party and focus on the errors and faults in the other party creates this tribalism. In my view two parties simply cannot represent the vast different opinions found in any country. It's just little shy from a single-party system. All this creates a fertile breeding ground for corruption, which basically is made legal.

The real problem is that Americans think this system would be changed by electing a President. Thanks to that, the world has gotten now Trump again.