I wouldn't be surprised if some of the happier people in your orbit are discretely "nihilists." Just listen to the popular comedians. Maybe it's even the "secret truth" of our lifestyle these days. — 0af
I can't believe what passes for philosophy around here. — szardosszemagad
The lower the expectations of life, the higher the probability that you will find happiness. — szardosszemagad
He might realize that many others aren't happy...If the wise man isn't happy, what's so great about wisdom? — 0af
If I am not, then consciousness is a disease that clearly offers no value on ultimate truth (which isn't the case because consciousness has built us great bridges,buildings, particle accelerators, plant gene alterations.) So then we must be somewhat justified in asking for a purpose to all of this. — intrapersona
The only only supreme authority on issues like these is the self and therefore the only objective meaning to life is the one you choose. — Nelson
Again, we are born into the world and we cannot stand boredom. We survive and get bored- our two great motivations. This wells up in the form of goal-seeking activities of all kinds. It's that simple. Life is just "there" but we cannot be just "there". We must move around, entertain ourselves, make goals, and essentially find ways to use our time and keep ourselves from discomfort. The result is a mostly repetitious existence of doing but for the sake of doing. — schopenhauer1
Of course, you're omitting and forgetting about eros. Eros draws us out of ourselves. The object of our love acts - at a distance as it were - and draws us to it. It is by far a truly motivating factor - so motivating that many have even died for it. And the object of Eros can be God, another person, and so on.Again, we are born into the world and we cannot stand boredom. We survive and get bored- our two great motivations. — schopenhauer1
But you can't stay "in meditation" your whole life, just existing. You have to do things. So that apathetic state, as far as I'm concerned, is not good. It's like taking drugs. If meditation, on the other hand, is a limited practice that you undertake in order to better exist in the world, that is a different story.I have had moments in meditation where I completely happy with just existing and what a present that is to have. — intrapersona
That's not Plato's conception.1 to produce and seek pleasure. 2 to gently rule through the love of learning. 3 to obey the directions of 2 while ferociously defending the whole from external invasion and internal disorder. — intrapersona
But you can't stay "in meditation" your whole life, just existing. You have to do things. So that apathetic state, as far as I'm concerned, is not good. — Agustino
That's not Plato's conception. — Agustino
Self-affirmation is another source of motivation that is generally stronger than survival and boredom but weaker than eros. — Agustino
You misunderstand what it is like. — intrapersona
It seems like you fall under this latter category that I was describing.If meditation, on the other hand, is a limited practice that you undertake in order to better exist in the world, that is a different story. — Agustino
I don't follow this. It hasn't been my experience that 'relief' from sex carries over.It carries over into real world much like the relief from sex carries over. — intrapersona
When I do it (meditation), it often does because I feel I should be spending my time doing something different. I always have so much to do...It doesn't breed apathy, it's the exact opposite. — intrapersona
Well I often go running, so I do enjoy effort that is productive. But by running you get results in terms of better fitness, better vitality, and just feeling stronger in your will and your body. It teaches you not to give up - it's an essential training for the will.The issue is that it is like going for a run, its an effort and hard to sustain unless you have "that" kind of personality. — intrapersona
I see. Have you read Plato? Plato's theory is quite different from what I understand it from the Republic. Wikipedia and secondary sources give misleading information, generally, not just about Plato. I can't remember for how many philosophers I've read Wikipedia, and then read their works and was like :-O 'what was that summary even about?! This is totally different'. Plato's tripartite conception is introduced to show how different drives of the psyche can be brought into harmony with each other. And for example, Plato does address this, which you claim he doesn't:Then argue it with wikipedia, its the first paragraph. — intrapersona
It's right towards the beginning of the Republic when Socrates proves that the God does not lie or deceive. He calls the real lie - the lie in the soul which affects our reasoning and prevents us from seeing reality as it is - as the true falsehood. And since our faculty of reason - in-so-far as it is reason - is from the God and shares with the divine - then it cannot induce us into error in and of itself.it still doesn't intrude on whether or not our reasoning has any iota of resemblance on ultimate truth or meaning if such a thing exists (but i feel it is somewhat self-evident). — intrapersona
No. You don't self-affirm in order to survive, rather you survive in order to self-affirm. Self-affirmation, the top of the pyramid, is much stronger than the bottom in terms of motivating factors. The higher your rise in the pyramid, the stronger the motivating factors become. I would even invert the pyramid upside down actually, just rotate it 180 degrees. Because having the top done, enables you to more easily take care of the bottom.wouldnt self affirmation be weaker than survival? — intrapersona
This is thymos. But it's not described very well...to obey the directions of 2 while ferociously defending the whole from external invasion and internal disorder — intrapersona
Of course, you're omitting and forgetting about eros. Eros draws us out of ourselves. — Agustino
Boredom is not strong enough to motivate one to withstand pain. And all great achievement entails great pain. Boredom may motivate someone to hit the club for example. But it won't motivate them to write Bethoveen's 5th Symphony. — Agustino
Nope, you're merely asserting this now. That doesn't hold water with me. There's no argumentation at all. Nor have you shown how eros can be reduced to survival and boredom.Nope, this is all romanticization. It's layers upon layers of obfuscation. It obfuscates the Real. The Real is the survival and boredom. All desires are essentially to run from one of the other. — schopenhauer1
Sure.producing works of intricate art is one of the most engrossing activities you can do. — schopenhauer1
Does the person who creates great art do it to "alleviate boredom"? Ask them - I think you'll be surprised by what they tell you.Why wouldn't one want to find the best way to alleviate boredom? — schopenhauer1
It's not about what you want or don't want to hear. It's about the truth.No one wants to hear survival and boredom. That just depresses people, so you can go on with your rhetorical romanticizations and throw more pleasant sounding buzz words, I just don't buy it. — schopenhauer1
Being content just to exist (doing nothing) sounds like some form of mental illness to me. That's not eudaimonia.It covers up the pretty simple idea that we are not content just existing — schopenhauer1
Nope, you're merely asserting this now. That doesn't hold water with me. There's no argumentation at all. Nor have you shown how eros can be reduced to survival and boredom. — Agustino
"This emptiness finds its expression in the whole form of existence, in the infiniteness of Time and Space as opposed to the finiteness of the individual in both; in the flitting present as the only manner of real existence; in the dependence and relativity of all things; in constantly Becoming without Being; in continually wishing without being satisfied; in an incessant thwarting of one’s efforts, which go to make up life, until victory is won. — Schopenhauer
Again, the problem with this is that it doesn't reflect reality.So, we are goal-seeking creatures. Goals come from our ability to use language to construct meaning in the world. The underlying angst of boredom manifests in our linguistic brains as the myriad of intricate goals we can pursue to alleviate this angsty dissatisfaction of just being. We can't just "be" in the world like a rock, we must "do". So what does doing require? Well, it requires goals of all sorts- goals that come from one's own personality shaped by experience/genetics/contingent circumstances of events in ones life. So one is exposed to certain people, experiences which provide a framework for building on interests and goals, etc.. Reasons my be secondary or tertiary, but the ultimate underlying motivation behind the linguistically-based, goal-driven pursuits, is the survival, boredom, discomfort factor. All together it is a general angst of just "being". If we were content in and of itself, we would not need to pursue any goals. You buy into the end product of some of the goals (beautiful works of art, etc.) but not the underlying causes. — schopenhauer1
"This emptiness finds its expression in the whole form of existence, in the infiniteness of Time and Space as opposed to the finiteness of the individual in both; in the flitting present as the only manner of real existence; in the dependence and relativity of all things; in constantly Becoming without Being; in continually wishing without being satisfied; in an incessant thwarting of one’s efforts, which go to make up life, until victory is won. — Schopenhauer
You should read my post here. — Agustino
Beethoven doesn't write the 5th Symphony because in the absence of writing it he would get bored. Rather, he takes positive pleasure in doing it. I don't get out of bed in the morning because I'd get bored if I stayed there. I get out of bed because I take positive pleasure in doing some of the things at least that I have to do every day. Desire plays a positive role, not just a negative role motivated by boredom. I don't desire just because I'd be bored otherwise. — Agustino
How do you know this is the ultimate underlying motivation? By what criteria have you established that? Why do you discount the answers people generally give? What reasons do you have to doubt those answers?Reasons my be secondary or tertiary, but the ultimate underlying motivation behind the linguistically-based, goal-driven pursuits, is the survival, boredom, discomfort factor. — schopenhauer1
You do realize that this presupposes its own anthropological conception of man, which is the one given by materialistic evolutionary biology of the 60s-80s right? Things have moved on from back then.The intermediary goal-seeking that we find pleasure in from our own personalities that create these linguistically based goals, has an underlying cause. You jumped from the intermediary right to the root. We are barely conscious of the root underlying cause, because the goal-seeking is usually the most present in our minds as we go through the day. It takes a bit more digging to get to the root of the goals themselves. — schopenhauer1
How do you know this is the ultimate underlying motivation? By what criteria have you established that? Why do you discount the answers people generally give? What reasons do you have to doubt those answers? — Agustino
You do realize that this presupposes its own anthropological conception of man, which is the one given by materialistic evolutionary biology of the 60s-80s right? Things have moved on from back then.
You create the concept of "intermediary goal-seeking", "linguistic goals", etc. and then attribute to them an underlying cause. And not only that, you also tell us that that underlying cause is boredom, and not, for example, pleasure, self-affirmation, or love. What reasons does anyone have to believe you? :s — Agustino
Why do you bother to survive? ;) ;) ;)Hold on, I have to do some intermediate goals now (for survival's sake) so I'll let you know in a bit ;)! — schopenhauer1
How do you know this is the ultimate underlying motivation? By what criteria have you established that? Why do you discount the answers people generally give? What reasons do you have to doubt those answers? — Agustino
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