"Anything is better than death.
Well, you know, that's not true. It's not true that anything is better than death. As a wise oncology nurse said to me, there are many people, more than you would dream, and many of our listeners I think probably fall into this category, for whom what you have to go through in order to come out on the other side alive is simply not worth the effort." — Dr. Nuland
If such was the case, I don't think they would care after they're dead, but they would obviously care while alive, because they will have to live with the consequences of their choices until they die.Why does anyone even care about the "investments" and things they did while they were alive? — Lone Wolf
This:Why do you have joy in life, knowing that you will become nothing very soon? Knowing that you will be forgotten, why do you care about being you? What joy is there in helping others or indulging in pleasures? The people you loved and cared for are nothing also, the pleasures are meaningless. — Lone Wolf
Even if we did not know that our mind is eternal, we would still regard as of the first importance morality, religion, and absolutely all the things we have shown to be related to tenacity and nobility [...]
The usual conviction of the multitude seems to be different. For most people apparently believe that they are free to the extent that they are permitted to yield to their lust, and that they give up their right to the extent that they are bound to live according to the rule of the divine law. Morality, then, and religion, and absolutely everything related to strength of character, they believe to be burdens, which they hope to put down after death, when they also hope to recieve a reward for their bondage, that is, for their morality and religion. They are induced to live according to the rule of the divine law (as far as their weakness and lack of character allows) not only by this hope, but also, and especially, by the fear that they may be punished horribly after death. If men did not have this hope and fear, but believed instead that minds die with the body, and that the wretched, exhausted with the burden of morality, cannot look forward to a life to come, they would return to their natural disposition, and would prefer to govern all their actions according to lust, and to obey fortune rather than themselves. These opinions seem no less absurd to me than if someone, because he does not believe he can nourish his body with good food to eternity, should prefer to fill himself with poisons and other deadly things, or because he sees that the mind is not eternal, or immortal, should preffer to be mindless, and to live without reason. These [common beliefs] are so absurd they are hardly worth mentioning [...]
Blessedness is not the reward of virtue, but virtue itself; nor do we enjoy it because we restrain our lusts; on the contrary, because we enjoy it, we are able to restrain them — Benedictus de Spinoza
Yeah, I too think that the idea of life after death is scarier than the idea that death is the end in many regards.So the real question that remains is, what if the idea of no life after death is wrong? — Lone Wolf
>:O Did you actually panic when you saw that?Unfortunately, about twenty feet from the top, and about a hundred and twenty feet from the bottom, I came across a layer of very crumbly rock; I grabbed at the next handhold, and a five kilo lump came away in my hand. I watched fascinated as it floated gently down and smashed itself to dust on the rocks below.
I considered trying to climb down, but climbing down without a rope is much harder than climbing up, because one's eyes are at the wrong end for seeing the next foothold. There was nothing for it but to fly rapidly up the crumbly rock, touching it as little as possible. So I did. — unenlightened
>:OThere are two possibilities: either I managed by a miracle to finish the incredibly dangerous climb in spite of being completely off my box, or I am lying broken at the base of the cliff, hallucinating these subsequent 50 odd years as I die. — unenlightened
I had to research what this strange expression meant. But now that I have, I will speculate that you escaped not in spite of being completely off your box, but rather because of it. It probably prevented you from getting so scared that you lost all control.in spite of being completely off my box — unenlightened
Yeah but that "possibility" is like the possibility of the sun not rising tomorrow. Logical possibility alone isn't sufficient to justify a position.Well actually there are loads of other possibilities as well, but anyway, the possibility of already being dead, and this being an afterlife takes the sting out of death completely. — unenlightened
What if you go to the fiery pit? O:) >:)But the notion that there is an end to suffering is also relieving. — darthbarracuda
since your body wants to stay alive, and will do anything in its power to do so — Agustino
Did you actually panic when you saw that? — Agustino
Logical possibility alone isn't sufficient to justify a position. — Agustino
>:O >:OYour body might do anything to stay alive when it is healthy and merely being chased by a long-legged ferociously angry feminist wielding an already bloodied axe. — Bitter Crank
It is hard to imagine though. I have a family member who is almost 100, and he suffered a stroke recently. He has recovered very well, but I can tell you 100% that he is very scared of death (his own admission), even while he was recovering. He was also very angry at doctors, nurses, family members, etc.The dying are not necessarily in terrible mental shape -- they can be reconciled, patient, and even cheerful while they lay in bed. — Bitter Crank
But there actually is always hope :P . It's just a fact of nature. Even when you're almost 100 there is hope, even when everyone says there isn't, so you really never know. Chances may be very big that you're going to die, but miracles are always possible.It is vital that the dying not be given false hope, so they can reconcile with their dying. "Oh no, there is always hope" is cruel bullshit when there really isn't any hope. — Bitter Crank
Ahh see - the LSD helped you :PNo. I realised I was in a precarious position and paused to consider - left, right, up, down, but not for too long, as the longer you stay in a strained position, the weaker the muscles get. Beautiful place tho. — unenlightened
Well, I would say that's right since life is very fragile.the difference between top and bottom, life and death, has just seemed trivially small at the personal level - a clump of grass that does, or does not bear your weight for a second. — unenlightened
Well why do you think because of LSD you'd be in a worse position? I think you might be in a better position because of diminished fear response.But this is not to recommend free climbing with no experience on hundred foot cliffs while on LSD. — unenlightened
So, all talk of an after-life, or not, is mere speculation. — TheMadFool
Nope. Do you know the life story of Dostoyevsky? He was saved from death row right before it was his turn.Yes, there is always hope -- the blade of the guillotine begins it's rapid decent. Let's see... why would there be hope here? Oh yes, an explosion a second before the blade was released sends a beam into the certain trajectory of the slicer and knocks it athwart, saving the victim till things can be put back in order. Then the execution resumes. — Bitter Crank
Sure, so what? The gods pick and choose whom they shall exalt, and whom they shall crush. The Ancients all were keenly aware of this, that their own life ultimately did not lie in their hands.Miracles do not intercede on behalf of the hopeful 999 out of 1000, and then it wasn't a miracle at all. — Bitter Crank
Simple, God can pick and choose who dies and who lives. I don't think this is bad in any sense of the term. Human beings are not in charge of their own lives. God's sun shines on the wicked and on the good. The good may be crushed, as Job was, and the evil may be given power. Or the contrary.Bad faith, too. "The helicopter crashed, but my two relatives survived while the rest of the 8-man crew died in a fiery crash." God performed a miracle." a Deaconess told me. Miracle, indeed! If God performs miracles, why save just her not particularly remarkable relatives and send the 6 others to an agonizing death? — Bitter Crank
In many ways, it is.I didn't feel like potato salad, so I missed the the salmonella that were swarming in the bowl, and later killed several people at the picnic. A miracle. — Bitter Crank
You don't have much of an alternative. It's a strategic choice. If you chance of success is 0.00001% then you better play it to the best of your abilities. What, it's better to just drop your weapons and make your chance go to 0%? Whenever I find myself in a terrible situation, I am pessimistic, but still hope for a miracle. As Heraclitus said, unless you expect the unexpected, you will not find it.999 times out of 1000 isn't "hope" it's grasping at straws which 999 times out of 1000 will be very disappointing. — Bitter Crank
I disagree, I don't see my days as under my control, so whether I plan for it or I don't, I'll still have to die at the same time. So I'd rather plan for other things.What you need to do, Agustino, is plan on dying one of these days. — Bitter Crank
No, haven't seen it. Thanks for sharing it.Have you seen the Bergman film, Seventh Seal? You should see it before it is too late. I hope you have time -- it's one of those films one should see before one dies. — Bitter Crank
Oh well, if you sense of injured justice will make you feel better while in the center of the pit, sure, why not? >:)If I go to a fiery pit then it will be for unjust reasons. An infinite punishment for a finite sin is unjust, especially when I didn't ask to be a part of this cosmic drama. — darthbarracuda
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