Any other Plato fans or scholars on here? — MysticMonist
Being Platonist is more tricky but someone who draws key elements of their thought from Plato's writings. But wouldn't that make most philosophers Platonists? Haha. — MysticMonist
Any other Plato fans or scholars on here? — MysticMonist
I've read a little Plato. I must admit it seemed pretty klunky. — T Clark
klunky — T Clark
A lot of philosophical writing strikes me as "clunky" or "klunky" and a lot of it segues into "murky" and finally, the kind of writing that one would get from 100 monkeys klacking away on mechanical typewriters for 1 million years. Some of it would be quite good, some of it would be readable, some of it would be opaque, — Bitter Crank
as Jeremiah in my other thread pointed out maybe I should just worry about what's relevant or useful. — MysticMonist
If you're interested in only what's 'relevant or useful' then you've probably joined the wrong forum. ;-) — Wayfarer
A philosopher in our day is considered a specialist in a field of knowledge distinct from that of science. Plato was a philosopher in a totally different sense. For him, philosophy was insight into the whole of truth, the study of reality in all its aspects; he was unaware of any barriers between this or that field of inquiry such as we erect today. Common sense ran into physics, physics into mathematics, mathematics into metaphysics; metaphysics, in its turn, led into ethics, politics, and religion. In reading the dialogues of Plato, we find abstruse discussions of ultimate principles joined to detailed descriptions of the parts of the human body, and investigations into the properties of geometrical figures along with inquiries as to the nature of the good life. Nor was philosophy confined to science; it included art. Plato is equally at home in the highly technical treatment of negation in the Sophist and in the poetical rhapsodies of the Symposium; his work is great both as thought and as literature, and is indeed great in the one category through its greatness in the other. Plato is a mystic and a mathematician together, and to enter into his meaning one must read him with one's emotions as well as with one's intellect. Finally, philosophy, for Plato, is a form of life, in fact, the distinctive form of life; far from being the indulgence of a mere instinct of curiosity, the toying of a dilettante with this or that amusing idea, it is a serious, as passionate business; it is the way to salvation, the endeavor to live one's life in the setting of the universe. Philosophy requires not only keenness of intellect but courage to face the truth, moral integrity, and a magnificence of soul; it calls on the resources of the entire personality.
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
The charioteer's choices are choice worthy if they correspond to reasons demands, they do not have a trace of Paul's existential dilemma, in my opinion, — Cavacava
Even more interesting to me, and relevant via your summoning of Paul to the conversation, is whether religious thought and belief was implicitly developed to combat this emotive/intuitive "gut feeling" and the actions that follow in order to maintain a society with a diverse population. In other words, when our intuitive reactions to others are divisive and threaten the social order, did religion pop-up to glue us back together?
I think Paul understood that teachings such as Christ's Sermon on the Mont gave rules that sounded outlandish at the time. Impossible goals, and he tried to show how these teaching were goals to be striven for, even if un-achievable. — Cavacava
Plato was a philosopher in a totally different sense.
Perhaps this might seem strange, but I am an ex-Zen Buddhist and an ex-Kabbalist so I'm very mystical oriented to begin with and Plotinus definitely offers a full enough philosophy to fill that. I'm tired of trying religions — MysticMonist
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