There's also the objection that immorality (manipulation and deception) are harmful in themselves, regardless of the external consequences they bring. That is Plato's entire argument about the "lie in the soul". To manipulate others, you must also manipulate yourself, because manipulation entails giving power to the willful aspect of your soul which seeks to determine reality as it wants it (according to your whims) and isn't concerned with how reality is.The only real objection to that could be that it wouldn't work, that no one is skilled enough in manipulation or deception to get away with it, but that can be reduced to the lack of certainty, and fear of — Wosret
Its far more like asking why should if follow the law if i could get away with not doing so? — Wosret
Hmm, okay, but surely we can scratch out the soul since it's ultimately a metaphor, what is important is the underlying reality that it signifies. That reality would still exist whether one is a materialist or whatever else because what one thinks does not change reality.I actually do think that that is true, but that already supposes too much of the position Im question. Without the soul, or truth anyway, that cant be true. — Wosret
What psychological structures are you referring to? If there were exceptions, would these people be subject to the same moral laws?Morality cannot be man-made because there are certain psychological structures which are given, which pretty much exist in all people, whether they are aware of them or not. And again we notice this from experience, both in ourselves and in others. These aspects are invariant. — Agustino
If truth and morality are man made — Wosret
Consequences. Someone will beat you to a pulp or call the police eventually. Taking everything you want from everyone is fine in a world of pacifists, but that isn't the world you find yourself in, is it?Why shouldn't I just take everything I want from everyone in every moment? — Wosret
Those that form the boundaries that delimit human thought and affective capacity.What psychological structures are you referring to? — Neva
Yes, in the same manner that blindness (or any other form of ignorance, whether systematic or random) does not make one immune to the structures that are otherwise revealed by sight.If there were exceptions, would these people be subject to the same moral laws? — Neva
Why do you take your own personal benefit to be the "rational" thing to pursue? It seems to me that on an a priori and purely logical basis it is no more rational than to pursue the other's benefit.It also isnt very rational unless it is more personally beneficial to me than anything else. — Wosret
So, "I should do X" means "man has imposed the obligation to do X" — Michael
No, it's means "I should follow the obligation to do X". — BlueBanana
The premise is "If truth and morality are man made, and not objective". — Michael
For the claim to be correct, the premise should be "morality is man made, and not objective, and we should follow them". — BlueBanana
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