It does matter because to answer me that it is your whims and preferences which provide the necessary link between reason and self-interest is to merely obscure its underlying foundation. Where do your whims and preferences come from? What's your underlying metaphysics? Are you an individual who decides by himself what his whims and preferences are? How does this process come about? This is important to understand why your whims and preferences are such that self-interest becomes the goal of your reasoning faculty.Doesn't matter. — Wosret
It doesn't follow from the mere existence of an obligation that it ought to be followed, which the sentence "one should do X" means. — BlueBanana
And this is actually not that radical of a claim at all. We often say about others "they are not acting in their best interest". It's a phenomenon that we observe quite commonly. How is it possible that they are not acting in their best interest all the while they are certain that they are? And if that applies to them, why wouldn't it also apply to us?So that would mean that you are actually not acting in your self-interest when you think you are so acting by following your whims and preferences, meaning that you are fundamentally self-deluded. — Agustino
Again, this talk about being obliged to follow an obligation is confused. — Michael
It's not; there's a vast difference between one having an obligation, or being obliged, and that one should do something. Obligations are always external, and the former means that according to some other being, one should do something, whereas that one should do something (at least in the context) would be interpreted so that one themselves thinks so. — BlueBanana
I'm trying to understand, but I really don't have even a vague sense of what you mean. Can I get a concrete example?Those that form the boundaries that delimit human thought and affective capacity. — Agustino
Does that mean animals are bound by the same moral laws as humans? If they are exempt, why?Yes, in the same manner that blindness (or any other form of ignorance, whether systematic or random) does not make one immune to the structures that are otherwise revealed by sight. — Agustino
So you're just asking about motivation? — Michael
No we're not, we're left with motivations — Wosret
So, even if we accept that, we're back to randomness. — Πετροκότσυφας
The fact that motivations aren't all random as we'd expect them to be if there was no generative principle behind them points precisely to the need for further investigation. Πετροκότσυφας is correct that we'd expect motivations to be random for he presupposes that different individuals will have different motivations and these would be individually mediated and thus random. However, this is not true. Motivations have a tendency to be self-invested, which points precisely to their common origin outside the individual as such.though they aren't, they're mainly self invested — Wosret
Yes.I'm trying to understand, but I really don't have even a vague sense of what you mean. Can I get a concrete example? — Neva
To a certain extent they are, however, morality requires the presence of a rational aspect to the soul. And if this is present, it is much diminished in many animals where instinct governs most of the time. The absence of this rational aspect also makes animals quite incapable of committing the range of immoralities that man is capable of.Does that mean animals are bound by the same moral laws as humans? — Neva
Why shouldn't I just take everything I want from everyone in every moment? — Wosret
This all only true if I couldn't get away with it — Wosret
People generally only tell the truth when it is beneficial, spend more money and time advertising and telling people that they gave to charities, or donated time than they gave, or donated. Exaggerations, omissions, outright fabrications... — Wosret
Could you get away with the effects that immoral behaviour would have on you (and your own well-being), regardless of what other people do? I don't think you can, and that just shows that this is actually quite an incoherent scenario once we understand morality rightly. All this underlines that there are some things that aren't under your control such as what is right and wrong. For that matter, whether you get away with it or not in an external manner also isn't under your control.This all only true if I couldn't get away with it — Wosret
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