When will it be understood that freedom is anything but free?

When there's nothing left to lose?

Nothin', don't mean nothin' hon' if it ain't free, no no

Nothin' from nothin' leaves nothin'
You gotta have somethin' if you want to be with me — Billy Preston

"I want to fuck you like an animal
I want to feel you from the inside
I want to fuck you like an animal
my whole existence is flawed"

9 Inch Nails

As a wise man once said.
"We pay a high price for our freedom, sometimes we pay with our lives"

As a wise man once said.
"We pay a high price for our freedom, sometimes we pay with our lives" — Sir2u

My Uncle served 7 tours of duty in the 33 years he was in the Army and I have heard him say that many times. He also said "No matter what others will tell you, never forget American's will always fight for Liberty."

Sir, I wonder sometimes if my children will ever understand what those before us fought and died for.

Sir, I wonder sometimes if my children will ever understand what those before us fought and died for. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Probably not, unless they make a chat group about it.

I have to be honest, I don't understand it all myself.
I know my dad served in the British merchant navy during the war. I know that he was in several conveys that were attacked. I know that they were all fighting to rid the world of a monstrous plague called the nazis. I still remember when I was six, asking why there were houses missing along some roads and being told that a bomb had hit it. I remember my grand mother telling us that the garden shed used to be the place they slept at night and even then I could see the fear she felt when she talked about it.

There were plenty of veterans around then, young old men that lived in mangled bodies, I saw a few more of them as a teenager while Vietnam was churning out death.

But I never lived any of the war. The suffering was second hand.

The US is still young, and the pleasures of freedom are still fresh in the air. England Is old, they people have forgotten the fights for freedom that happened years or centuries ago.

I talked to an old man that had fought in both wars. He told me that not even those that went to war really understood what they were fighting for. Even when they were told that they were fighting for own freedom a lot of them did not know why they fought for something that they already had.

The US is still young, and the pleasures of freedom are still fresh in the air. England Is old, they people have forgotten the fights for freedom that happened years or centuries ago. — Sir2u

I'm so very glad that Americans still see their Freedoms and choose to protect them.

The to an old man that had fought in both wars. He told me that not even those that went to war really understood what they were fighting for. Even when they were told that they were fighting for own freedom a lot of them did not know why they fought for something that they already had. — Sir2u

Sometimes you truly do not understand the value of something you have until it's gone.

You have probably heard these words before but I post them in case you haven't and the reason is simply because they came to me as I was pondering on some of the thoughts expressed here at TPF .

Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on that sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

by Dylan Thomas

Evil will never dim our country's light of goodness and of her people who are Thankful to be able to call her home.

Sometimes you truly do not understand the value of something you have until it's gone. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

That is what I tried to explain, that the English have nothing to loose with any more controls because they never had the freedoms to begin with.

Evil will never dim our country's light of goodness and of her people who are Thankful to be able to call her home. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

And it never should.

Have any of you ever seen updog?

Have any of you ever seen updog? — Hanover

Not recently, the stupid mutt does want to get her lazy ass up off the porch.

Play along!

Play along! — Hanover

No man, she is downdog, she doesn't even want to play.

I have no idea who up dog is. I do want to.share some advice my Veterinarian gave; she is of the belief that rawhide is never truly broken down by the body and can sit and eventually cause cancer. So her solution is to give the dogs "Bully Sticks" instead because they do digest it better.
I am not sure if you have had experience with Bully Sticks but I have and though the dogs love them, they stink something fierce. Bully Sticks are Bull Penis inner shank. They come in all sizes too. So next time you are at the Veterinarian, ask and see how they feel.about a box of cute rawhile bones, half of which puppy will gag on only.for you to fish it out of puppy's mouth or a box of Bull Penis that you likely will never have to fish out of puppy's mouth because puppy will know how to swallow.
<laughing hesterically> Oh my, my

Yeah, you're supposed to say, "what's updog?" to which I say, "not much dog, how bout you?"

What's updog?

If you handed out scripts of what you want us to answer with it would go a lot smoother :D

Yeah, you're supposed to say, "what's updog?" to which I say, "not much dog, how bout you?" — Hanover

HaHaHa. No one fell for it. As Tiff points out there is no way people around here are going to answer if you don't give them a cue. (not clue)

I would be willing to bet that almost everyone that read your post googled it, and the rest thought you were talking shit so they ignored you.

Back to the drawing boards old man. :D

And my dog is not really lazy, she is hyper active.

Been edited.

England Is old, they people have forgotten the fights for freedom that happened years or centuries ago. — Sir2u

No, I for one have not forgotten the First Barons War, Magna Carter, The Second Barons War, the Provisions of Oxford, the English Civil War, the Glorious Revolution, the Bill of Rights, Abolitionism & the Slavery Abolition Act 1833, the Suffragettes, the Representation of The People Act 1918, 1928 & 1969, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the International Bill of Human Rights, The Sexual Offences Act 1967 (decriminalised homosexuality), the Equal Pay Act 1970, and so on.

But I'm still against the Second Amendment.

No, I for one have not forgotten the First Barons War, Magna Carter, The Second Barons War, the Provisions of Oxford, the English Civil War, the Glorious Revolution, the Bill of Rights, Abolitionism & the Slavery Abolition Act 1833, the Suffragettes, the Representation of The People Act 1918, 1928 & 1969, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the International Bill of Human Rights, The Sexual Offences Act 1967 (decriminalised homosexuality), the Equal Pay Act 1970, and so on. — Sapientia

Are you really that old?
We all, at least those with some education, remember these. Historically.
Have you every lived without the right to vote? No, you have always had it.
Have you ever been denied the right to go to any public school that is near where you live, just because of the color of your skin or because you were poor. I doubt it.

There are a lot of Americans alive today with those memories and they are personal not historical memories.

You weren't alive centuries ago either. I don't like the patronising tone in that kind of comment. It's not a game of Top Trumps. The point is that I haven't forgotten their importance, despite your offensive suggestion.

You weren't alive centuries ago either. — Sapientia

Your ignorance is astounding!

I am not talking about centuries ago. From 1965 to 69 I went to a segregated school. In case you do not know what that means, it was a school where only white students were allowed to study, the black students went to a shack down the road. I lived and rode the school buses that were forced by Desegregation Laws to go through the black neighborhoods to pick up the black kids and take them to black schools. It was no fun at all being spat upon for the color of your skin, no matter what color it was. There were many places in the southern states that were much worse than the small town I lived in.

Have you ever seen a film called Mississippi Burning. Watch it and then tell I could not have personal experience of those things.

I don't like the patronising tone in that kind of comment. — Sapientia

Hang on a moment,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I really don't care. Suck it up. ( Oh dear, did I let my emotions show again?)

It's not a game of Top Trumps. The point is that I haven't forgotten their importance, despite your offensive suggestion. — Sapientia

You may have not forgotten their importance, but you have not lived any of them. A lot of Americans still have the feelings of hard won rights running through their veins. They or their parents lived those times go to sleep at night dreaming of them. They, the memories, are a living part of so many of the people lives.

And you, "Yes I read about that in history class and I understand that because of those people 10 centuries ago I now am a free man."

Did you ever hit the streets to protest anything, have you ever sent a letter to your legal representatives in the government asking for changes? Have you ever even tried to do something to make a change in the society in which you live?

Unless you have made a mark in history or participate in some way in it then you do not have personal memories of it. You have historical memories things that you have learned from books. And that is one of the biggest differences between you and the yanks.

Your ignorance is astounding!

I am not talking about centuries ago. — Sir2u

So predicable. Take a look at what you said:

England Is old, they people have forgotten the fights for freedom that happened years or centuries ago. — Sir2u

That's what I was referring to, genius.

23 years ago NicK and I were married Creekside at sunset, in the forest in which we met 4 years prior. True story that I met him in the woods camping, he the only other person with a dog and I, new to the group had my dog with me.
27 years later I wonder how we did but we are still doing so I am going to trust that the string will always be long enough to keep bonding each day we spend together into a book of our lifetime. The chapter of both Indians leaving the home for college has begun and I told NicK, that it is time again for us to have fun and do some of the things we gave up for parenthood and it's been a good time, as some of the stress has lifted.
But now we need to grow one more property, into the Bed and Breakfast that we have always dreamed of. We found the city, now as we prepare our ranch for sale, we look for our Cabin in the woods, woods that have four seasons. (L)
Oh and the presents we have exchanged? NicK gave me a Pumpkin which is the first gift he ever gave me and I gave him three Pinecones which represents the three boys he has brought into my life. (L)

That's what I was referring to, genius. — Sapientia

It is a shame that you did not read the original post. It was comparing the English way of thinking about rights to the American way of thinking. I explained that the English had more historical that personal memories of the fight for the rights that they enjoy where as the Americans have a lot of personal memories of them.

"England Is old, they people have forgotten the fights for freedom that happened years or centuries ago."
The reference is to people alive today, not centuries ago. I did not need to be around centuries ago to see it today.

If you fail to understand what people are saying to you, try asking for clarification of the point in question. It might make your life easier.

If you are going to insist on nitpicking silly little details instead of talking about the topic under discussion. I have no intention of replying.

cheerio old chap.

I have no intention of replying. — Sir2u

Good.

Some rights are not worth having. If the right to have a gun effectively translates into the right to live in a more violent society and thus the right to suffer a greater risk of harm therein, you can take that right and stick it where the sun don't shine (with all due respect).

Some rights are not worth having. If the right to have a gun effectively translates into the right to live in a more violent society and thus the right to suffer a greater risk of harm therein, you can take that right and stick it where the sun don't shine (with all due respect). — Baden

For the Americans all of their rights are connected and erosion of one might lead to complete removal of others. For them it is all or nothing, and they don't want nothing.

Good. — Sapientia

Glad to see that you agree with me.

Adios amigo.