We value it in itself. — Brian
No. Especially since you seem to have characterized "happiness" so as to make it incompatible with pain and suffering.My question is:
1. Is truth only as valuable to the extent it helps us achieve happiness? — TheMadFool
I suggest that most of us do not search very hard for the truth, except in special cases. Nevertheless, it seems most of us find truth most of the time, and most of us value truth most of the time -- whether or not we acknowledge that we do.2. If yes, why do we search so hard for the truth, given that some truths are painful? — TheMadFool
Many philosophers, including Rorty and Davidson, seem to take it for granted that our powers of perception and perceptual judgment have been honed by natural selection to produce "mostly true" beliefs.3. If no, what is this other value of truth? — TheMadFool
Especially since you seem to have characterized "happiness" so as to make it incompatible with pain and suffering. — Cabbage Farmer
Nevertheless, it seems most of us find truth most of the time, and most of us value truth most of the time -- whether or not we acknowledge that we do. — Cabbage Farmer
honed by natural selection to produce "mostly true" beliefs. — Cabbage Farmer
I like Carl Rogers' take on this .. he says "all facts are friendly" , which I believe, was his way of saying that one's life is in one's own hands. And "truths" are really just facts that can only exist in a very narrow context whereas one's life is potentially unbounded, and not hemmed in by simple and contrived black and white questions.However, there are truths that make us unhappy. The truth about our ugliness, our poverty, our meaningless existence, etc. are pain-inducing. — TheMadFool
1. Is truth only as valuable to the extent it helps us achieve happiness?
2. If yes, why do we search so hard for the truth, given that some truths are painful?
3. If no, what is this other value of truth? — TheMadFool
And "truths" are really just facts that can only exist in a very narrow context whereas one's life is potentially unbounded, and not hemmed in by simple and contrived black and white questions — Jake Tarragon
Should our lives be guided by truth or should our lives guide the truth? — TheMadFool
To know the truth that a gun can kill or a stone can hurt translates into survival - life and happiness instead of death or pain. It then seems that truth = happiness and survival. Perhaps, therein lies the value of truth. — TheMadFool
The latter! — Jake Tarragon
does absolutely ensure survival, on the next level up from that, it is about competitive advantage. — MikeL
So, you see no value in truth beyond its use as a means for happiness and survival?
If that's the case then philosophy too must simply be a means to survival. Yet, many here (I'm guessing) think that philosophy is a higher goal - the quest for knowledge for its own sake. — TheMadFool
1. Is truth only as valuable to the extent it helps us achieve happiness?
2. If yes, why do we search so hard for the truth, given that some truths are painful?
3. If no, what is this other value of truth? — TheMadFool
If we interpret truth as Aletheia, the pessimist is disclosing the world to be in a certain way. The pessimist is not necessarily staying true to the facts and the optimist in not necessarily closing their eyes to the reality. They are both disclosing the world in different ways according to how they find themselves to be disposed in the facticity of their situation. They are both in the truth, not because they value truth, but because they are, as human, essentially this disclosing activity. Truth.Yet, there are some who value truth above happiness. For example, pessimism, which is based on the fact that suffering exceeds happiness, values truth above happiness. Pessimists are unhappy but this is grounded in truths about our world. — TheMadFool
what does truth even mean? — bloodninja
They are both in the truth, not because they value truth, but because they are, as human, essentially this disclosing activity. — bloodninja
What else is there to disclose but the truth? — TheMadFool
Why do something if you don't value it? — TheMadFool
et, the truth is, beauty, power, wealth seem to be on a lower rung on the value ladder. May be it's just me. What do you think? To me, truth seems to be fundamentally connected to the nature of the universe itself. Thus, truth seems to be the ultimate goal of human endeavor...achieving the proverbial "oneness" with ultimate reality. — TheMadFool
I think the idea behind Aletheia is that in unconcealing or disclosing being, you are simultaneously concealing or covering up being. — bloodninja
I don't think people do things because they value them. For the most part people just do what one does because it's what one does. — bloodninja
I'm not too sure what you mean? I'm not really talking about our animal instincts as such, but about conformism in general. I have been thinking lately that our feelings of morality are simply an expression of this conformity. In other words that we are deeply structured by norms and feel uncomfortable when anybody deviates from norms. Do you not think so?Ethics can't be explained from your perspective. — TheMadFool
I am extremely dubious about the possibity of rationally choosing values. — bloodninja
I have been thinking lately that our feelings of morality are simply an expression of this conformity. In other words that we are deeply structured by norms and feel uncomfortable when anybody deviates from norms. Do you not think so? — bloodninja
Does a composer pursue Truth? Or what about war? Does a great warrior pursue truth? Does a beautiful young women (or man) learning how to dress to maximize her beauty pursue truth? — t0m
Reason is very important in a lot of different ways, but I don't think it's as fundamental to human nature as the mattering of simply being drawn into the significance of things.what role does reason play in our lives? Is it simply a tool to achieve and acquire values determined by our nature? — TheMadFool
Good question! I think our norms are completely groundless! As far as I'm concerned deontology and utilitarianism are artificial creations. Aristotelian Virtue Ethics gets it right because it describes the norms as norms. I don't think Aristotle would go so far to say that norms are groundless, but he is almost there I think. Phronesis (practical wisdom, the crown virtue), for example, seems to me to be groundless, ultimately.these norms must have a rational basis... How would we answer these reasoned questions about the worthiness of our norms? — TheMadFool
1. Is truth only as valuable to the extent it helps us achieve happiness? — TheMadFool
2. If yes, why do we search so hard for the truth, given that some truths are painful? — TheMadFool
Yes, yes and yes.
Music is a type of truth in which there is a mathematical order between the notes played. Get it wrong and it is discordant.
A warriors truth may be the truth about his inner fortitude or the pursuit of the truth as to whether he is the greatest warrior ever. To this end he will pit himself against strong adversaries.
A woman may be looking for the truth about her beauty. If she does everything right, does she possess it? Or she may be looking to reveal the truth about her beauty to the beau. — MikeL
We can see that in our willingness to believe falsehoods if they make us happy. Truth is lower in priority than happiness. — TheMadFool
1. Is truth only as valuable to the extent it helps us achieve happiness?
2. If yes, why do we search so hard for the truth, given that some truths are painful?
3. If no, what is this other value of truth? — TheMadFool
Yes. Truth is supposed to benefit people in some form or way. — MountainDwarf
So that we can change. It is our duty to change in accordance with knowledge — MountainDwarf
You would be seeking Truth out for your betterment.
If one is equating Truth with pain and suffering then yes one's survival instinct would probably lead one elsewhere. But, even if there was pain and suffering with Truth, one need not necessarily associate pain and suffering with the loss of Happiness and thus the loss of Truth. We just put it all together. Its the human experience? — Frank Barroso
The dichotomy of pleasure and pain is slippery. The coordination of pleasure and pain with desire and aversion is complex. The relation of affect to right action is problematic.I think you've hit upon something there. I believe happiness is the contrary of pain & suffering. Is there an overlap area between happiness and pain & suffering, as your comment seems to suggest? Can we be in pain AND happy? I'd like to know what you mean here. — TheMadFool
I've suggested there are many cases in which a fit and happy person will willingly take on pains, without thereby reducing his fitness or happiness; and in some such cases, the sacrifice will tend to increase the agent's happiness over time.The only value in truth that I see is in its use for survival. We can see that in our willingness to believe falsehoods if they make us happy. Truth is lower in priority than happiness.
So, I find your claim that people value truth in and of itself unbelievable. — TheMadFool
If people judge what makes them happy only according to what feels good from one moment to the next, they increase their own unhappiness in the long run. Truth recommends itself in the fullness of time. Even with respect to survival: The more truth, the better prepared for what comes, all else equal.That's what I mean. Truth is only valuable to the extent that it can be used to make us happy or help us survive. The moment this link is lost, people prefer lies over truths. — TheMadFool
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