; our projections of human conceptions of value onto the absolute? — Janus
If we are going to be consistent in our projection of an absolute then we are projecting it as that which is beyond our understanding. — Janus
It would seem absurd to then turn around and criticize our projection because a problem whuch is beyond our understanding (the existence of evil) — Janus
Yeah part of my argument is that if there some sort of meaning then it's unlikely that this meaning to be the biggest jerk you can be. — MysticMonist
Cultivating virtue and treating others well and seeking solace in prayer/study would suit one well regardless. — MysticMonist
I'm having trouble parsing through this sentence; can you rephrase? — Noble Dust
Aside from your response to my above request, are you saying that evil is beyond our understanding? Maybe your enumeration of your point will help with this — Noble Dust
If the world is not created out of love then of course there is no problem of evil. — Janus
"Cloud of Unknowing" — Janus
The problems start when we demand: "either/or". We are better to think "both/ and". — Janus
If the world were not created out of love, what would it be created out of? Evil? Indifference? But I see what you mean, and it looks similar to some of my arguments here: the so called "problem of evil" only exists within a context where the opposite: a world predicated on love, for instance, is the reality. Yes/no? — Noble Dust
Did you read that book? — Noble Dust
But not by the metrics of modern Western culture. — Noble Dust
it's either a pseudo-problem, or a problem that originates due to a our limited understanding of good and evil, creation and love. — Janus
So much the worse for the "metrics of Western Culture", then! — Janus
Well it could be, as according to science, created out of nothing. And I agree that the problem of evil would in that case be a pseudo-problem. — Janus
Depends at what level of inquiry you are asking that. If you are asking at the level of metaphysics/religion, then it is because of the Fall - humans have rejected God's love and are thus left with Satan's violence.Under the assumption "God doesn't want us to sacrifice scapegoats"
Why then does the human, the perfect creation of God, sacrifice the scapegoat? — Frank Barroso
Did you find any books helpful in your depression?I bought it on a whim in a state of severe depression, and then left it on the park bench where I began reading it after it's purchase. — Noble Dust
Did you find any books helpful in your depression? — Agustino
Yes, when I was depressed I didn't find much help in books either. However, things like prayer, sports, and having a few close friends were all helpful to a certain extent - and just getting adjusted to feeling the emotions. You know there is a point when you have emotions but you realize they can't hurt you and you don't have to react to them - that moment was quite revelatory for me. It is much like how you feel the need to give up when you're running and you keep feeling it but don't give up. It's a strange thing because to a certain extent you escape your biological programming - but it's like a muscle, it must be trained.At that period of my life, no, as far as I can remember. — Noble Dust
I read that when depressed too >:O - but I don't remember much now. I think I liked it at first, and then didn't like it anymore lol.I remember reading Tillich's The Courage To Be — Noble Dust
Haha! Why were you reading the books in the park and not at home? And did the strangers approach you and start talking to you? :P I assume if they saw you crying they must have!But, I was crying in the park, in front of strangers, to give you a sense of the impact. >:O — Noble Dust
However, things like prayer, sports, and having a few close friends were all helpful to a certain extent - and just getting adjusted to feeling the emotions. — Agustino
You know there is a point when you have emotions but you realize they can't hurt you and you don't have to react to them - — Agustino
I read that when depressed too — Agustino
Why were you reading the books in the park and not at home? — Agustino
>:O I have literarily almost zero memory about what the contents of the book are anymore. I somehow remember Kierkegaard is mentioned and there's lots of talk about the ground of being?I guarantee you it's all in the title. A fucking misleading title, at that. >:O — Noble Dust
I never tried that. I prefer to run in parks, or watch people :-O lolBecause reading books in the park can be profound — Noble Dust
Hmmm so is NYC the type of place where if you lie on the ground on the street nobody stops by to see what's happening with you?And no, its NYC, no one approached me. — Noble Dust
I have literarily almost zero memory about what the contents of the book are anymore. I somehow remember Kierkegaard is mentioned and there's lots of talk about the ground of being? — Agustino
or watch people :-O lol — Agustino
Hmmm so is NYC the type of place where if you lie on the ground on the street nobody stops by to see what's happening with you? — Agustino
Ah, at least I remembered that... >:OThe ground of being is the main gist; God is above God; beyond God. The ground of being. — Noble Dust
LOL, that must be quite a depressing place to live then, no wonder you were depressed!It's the definition of that place. — Noble Dust
But I don't understand your reasoning here; why would a "real" (assuming it's not a psuedo) problem of evil be simply because of our limited understanding? — Noble Dust
Ah, at least I remembered that... >:O — Agustino
LOL, that must be quite a depressing place to live then, no wonder you were depressed! — Agustino
To a certain extent, but it's not that ground breaking :PActually, come to think of it, it was a useful concept. The idea of our conception of God being just a representation of the real God; the "God above God". That's how he phrases it; in other words, more accurately, it would be the "God above god". — Noble Dust
lol! See, that's why you should move to a chill, non-competitive place :PYou mean are depressed, right? I still live here :P — Noble Dust
To a certain extent, but it's not that ground breaking :P — Agustino
lol! See, that's why you should move to a chill, non-competitive place — Agustino
I mean the idea itself is very old, and Tillich doesn't even express it in the best way. Also the idea itself, without the necessary experiences, isn't of much help either.No? How so? It was groundbreaking within my own experience, regardless of the historical context of the concept. — Noble Dust
Are you kidding? You're living in probably one of the most expensive cities in the whole world! You can find much cheaper rent anywhere else, especially in third world countries where prices and rents are much cheaper for everything. That is provided you can sustain a similarly high income, which wouldn't necessarily be impossible - for example I know that if you worked online you could do it. If you were a web developer, say, you could continue the work you used to do in NYC from anywhere around the world, and earn about the same while living at a cheaper cost. If you are a musician you could probably do it if you're already somewhat established online and get funding/sales through things like Patreon.Yeah, like where? Can I find cheap audio gear and rent, and somehow find a way to make a living while having time to write/record music? :s — Noble Dust
How does dying encourage growth? — Banno
humans have rejected God's love and are thus left with Satan's violence. — Agustino
it is projected unto the gods. — Agustino
No, that's ironically the mythical image of God that Christianity exposes. Violence belongs to man, not to God. So the one who slashed the tires is man.God is like an angry ex-gf that slashes your tires after you told her you were gonna go hang with that other smexy bihh? — Frank Barroso
Nope.So all people who believe in Christianity readily admit we are all evil, will continue to be evil since we have fallen, but will be forgiven, its all ok, keep doing evil? — Frank Barroso
Yes, what's the problem with that? All the works of evil are man's (and Satan's) not God's. That's what the Bible shows.All mythology being Satan's work, does this mean Satan works through us to produce evil work? Could you elaborate on that a little? — Frank Barroso
That is a mythological hypothesis, because God doesn't make us feel better about our actions or what is done to us, but quite the opposite - God puts all the blame on us - it is revealed that we are behind the evil that is around us. That is precisely what makes the Biblical God different from the gods shown by mythology.This is telling, does this mean God is just an idea to make us feel better about our actions and actions done to us? — Frank Barroso
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