So, when experienced in private, are these types of fantasies moral? — T Clark
So, when experienced in private, are these types of fantasies moral? Ethical? — T Clark
I bet if you put that question to a poll, — Wayfarer
the case was whether, as the imagery was simulated and no actual children were involved, — Wayfarer
I think that as long as your thoughts are 100% private them no one, not even yourself should need to judge them. Being fantasies they have no realistic value. — Sir2u
Making that type of thing publically available and acceptable, even if it wouldn't lead to dangerous behavior (which is questionable), would probably set a tone that would make the most vulnerable people feel threatened. — T Clark
Is watching pornography a stimulant or a learning method? — Sir2u
What would happen if I did make my fantasies more public. I think a lot of people would not want to be around me. — T Clark
That would depend on what the fantasies were, who knows you might even get offers of participation.
But if you started talking about how you would like to find out what sex with a goat was like, then yes I would be the first one out of the door. — Sir2u
The question he raised was whether there is something morally or ethically wrong with sexual fantasy about acts that would be considered immoral. — T Clark
No. That's wrong. It's a basic human right to think what you think. It's what you DO that we judge. — fishfry
So, when experienced in private, are these types of fantasies moral? — T Clark
So that's my two cents. Anything at all in your brain, no matter how horrible, is legal, moral, and ethical. That's why by the way I oppose hate crime laws. It's already illegal to hurt people. If you do it while thinking a particular thought, that is nobody's business. You are allowed to think your thoughts. Hate crime laws are literally Orwellian "thought crimes." We're going to punish you for what you think.
No. That's wrong. It's a basic human right to think what you think. It's what you DO that we judge. — fishfry
If they are experienced in private then they are neither moral or immoral, the fantasies just "are" and no one is there to judge and even if you did share, I think you would be surprised what others would think you would be surprised to learn about them and their fantasies — ArguingWAristotleTiff
For example, perhaps when the "fantasy rapist" is with a partner they are unable to be with the other in authentic solicitude (Heidegger's concept). Their rape fantasy would get in the way of this authentic solicitude, and the other would be reduced to a prop. Their sexual union would be structured around dishonesty. Dishonesty is a vice. Thus rape fantasy is not merely amoral, but indirectly immoral... — bloodninja
If indulging in fantasies about immoral sexual acts would make it more likely that one would commit those acts, then I would say that it is immoral to indulge in the fantasies. It would be like an alcoholic buying a bottle of booze and taking it home; he would be more likely to drink booze if there was booze in the house than if there wasn't.
So let's say there are two types of people; people who can indulge in fantasies about immoral sexual acts without this making it more likely that they would commit them, and people who can't. Then the problem is: can you be sure you know which type you are, given that none of us is an unbiased observer of ourselves? — Herg
I share this opinion up to a certain point. But fantasy is also something that one does, and is therefore up to be judged. I can't, for example, judge someone as sick and immoral who self-pleasures while thinking about raping and murdering a child. Surely you can't either. — antinatalautist
I think there is something to say about a person feeling weird about some fantasies afterwards, so to make it something to avoid, but one has to wonder if some fantasies are not just an expression of something that is prior to morality. One can be turned on, for example, by many things in a rape fantasy; to hurt, dominate, control, be feared, and whatever. I don't think these are not inhumane things to want to let out in fantasies, even should it involve something quite horrible, as long as one is strong enough to completely lock their expression in this way out of the everyday life (minus the fantasies) and indeed more strongly push them away the stronger the urges are. This fantasy then, as I see it, is just an expression of who-knows-what, with no connection to reality. — SomXtatis
I feel like I'm all over the place, but the point is this: Societal life can be incredibly restrictive, and many aspects of the human nature can't be expressed in it, but are pushed down by force as something bad. To find ways to let these urges out without harm is maybe even a necessity for the society. Moreover, even bypassing into the "wrong" might work as an encouragement for disturbing fantasies, so the real end of the urge from which the fantasy is born is even more unclear. The thing to be judged are the actions and the quality of the person (unfortunately also shown through actions). — SomXtatis
I think that's the type of example that tests the principle. If others knew about that fantasy, they would not let their children within a mile of the person. And they'd be right. — T Clark
I agree that someone is probably more disposed toward certain types of behavior if one gets pleasure from them, but between thinking about hurting someone and actually doing it there is a big gap. — Sir2u
You don't take chances with your children. Also, whether or not they would participate in a particular behavior, the fantasy says something about how that person thinks and sees other people. Actually, maybe it's more that making your fantasies public shows that you are the kind of person who does not understand appropriate human boundaries. I hadn't thought about that. I think it makes a lot of sense. — T Clark
I don’t plan to go into my fantasies in any detail in this discussion — T Clark
If one believes in an omniscient God from whom nothing can be hidden, the content of one's mind is as open for inspection as ones public acts. Talk about Big Brother! — Bitter Crank
Isn't there is a difference between fantasy and mental planning and rehearsal with the intent of execution?.....Fantasies are not acts, and can not be judged as acts. There is no analogy between fantasy and act. — Bitter Crank
The question I was thinking about when I opened this discussion is whether some fantasy is immoral even if we can be sure it will not lead to immoral action. — T Clark
You are old enough to remember what Jimmy Carter said. I think it was before he got elected. He said that he had sinned by "lusting in his heart." — T Clark
I'm not sure how much we choose to fantasize, and how much of what we fantasize about seems to arrive unbidden, rather than be ordered up How much of our minds are we in positive control of? Some, certainly, but not all of it. — Bitter Crank
Of course we still get angry and do things we regret, but I wonder if violence was never portrayed it might not be emulated except by mistake. — MysticMonist
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