On the other hand, the verification of the insight is through reason, implying that the insight has grounds in reason and is there discernible in principle. — tim wood
That the word is Theology, clearly rooted in pre-christian Greece, is in my opinion a clue that Theology is not about any conception of any version of a Christian God, either OT or NT. — tim wood
The idea of such being, nearly as I can tell, to retreat from and remain beyond reason and rationality. — tim wood
Does the supernatural element of any religion provide any insight whatsoever that is unavailable to reason and that cannot be reached through reason? — tim wood
My conclusion is that on these terms, the claim that God exists is simply an metaphysical error made by folks who don't know any metaphysics. — tim wood
An empty and trivial argument looms, here. I don't want that argument. — tim wood
Again, "insights are their own verification"? This is akin to saying that a true proposition is just plain true in itself without recourse to criteria, or that the criteria are coincidental to the quality of being true. — tim wood
'm having trouble reading your sentence: should I read it (more-or-less) this way, "The unmoved mover of the Greeks - was - the God of the Bible"? If yes, I disagree. The development by the Patristic Fathers of the idea of God is just exactly that. And the God of the Bible is just exactly something else. And the Bible's God is a lot more than just a notion of the Greek unmoved mover. — tim wood
Clement of Alexandria was a Christian theologian who taught at the Catechetical School of Alexandria. A convert to Christianity, he was an educated man who was familiar with classical Greek philosophy and literature. As his three major works demonstrate, Clement was influenced by Hellenistic philosophy to a greater extent than any other Christian thinker of his time, and in particular by Plato and the Stoics.
Origen, reportedly trained in the school of Clement and by his father, has long been considered essentially a Platonist with occasional traces of Stoic philosophy. Patristic scholar Mark J Edwards has argued that many of Origen's positions are more properly Aristotelian than strictly Platonic (for instance, his philosophical anthropology).
I am no fundamentalist, but I generally buy the notion that if you're going to insist on believing that the Christian God is real and existing, then the Bible is the place, the only place, to learn whatever can be learned about Him. — tim wood
at a deeper level it seemed evident to me that essentially the same thing was going on in all these different places of worship, namely men and women were coming together under the auspices of some ancient, highly developed tradition which enables them to open their minds and hearts “upwards” toward a higher divine reality which makes a claim on the living of their lives. ...
...given the various cultural ways of being human we can I think to some extent understand how it is that they constitute different "lenses" through which the divine Reality is differently perceived. For we know that all human awareness involves an indispensable contribution by the perceiver. The mind is active in perception, organising the impacts of the environment in ways made possible both by the inherent structure of consciousness and by the particular sets of concepts embedded in particular minds. These concepts are the organizing and recognitional capacities by which we interpret and give meaning to the data which come to us from outside. And this general epistemological pattern, according to which conscious experience arises out of the interpretive activity of the mind, also applies to religious experience. — John Hick
If God is what the history of God tells us (akin to philosophy being in a sense the history of philosophy), then God is a creature of idea and the history of idea - which in my opinion is the only actual God there is. That is, God is as the efficacy of the idea of Him for thinking. — tim wood
But as the history of science and God shows, that God keeps changing, a phenomenon sometimes called God-in-the-gaps. In my opinion, the secret is to keep re-examining in God that which comes to be understood to be immune to change. — tim wood
For oppression makes a wise man mad, And a bribe corrupts the heart. 8 The end of a matter is better than its beginning; Patience of spirit is better than haughtiness of spirit. 9 Do not be eager in your heart to be angry, For anger resides in the bosom of fools. 10 Do not say, "Why is it that the former days were better than these?" For it is not from wisdom that you ask about this. 11 Wisdom along with an inheritance is good And an advantage to those who see the sun. 12 For wisdom is protection just as money is protection, But the advantage of knowledge is that wisdom preserves the lives of its possessors.
we be wise without a supernatural God? — tim wood
I think we have to distinguish among ethical Christians (my group), cultural Christians, and religious Christians (all for lack of better names). The first two are no doubt interesting, but not my topic here. The religious Christians (of my experience) are linked by their profession of a belief in a real being they call God, that I call a supernatural being. Not only do they profess that belief, but they also maintain that belief, in the sense of believing real and existing, including the miracles, in those supernatural elements is the sine qua non of being a Christian. You may recall a Dr. Gene Scott, a late night religious personality: he put it succinctly, "If the resurrection isn't true, then Christianity is just another cult." (Harsh, because I think Christianity allows for more thinking than a cult can.) — tim wood
You may recall a Dr. Gene Scott, a late night religious personality: he put it succinctly, "If the resurrection isn't true, then Christianity is just another cult." (Harsh, because I think Christianity allows for more thinking than a cult can.) — tim wood
You apparently want to walk Christianity forward by walking with criteria established by "modern" criticism as developed through philosophical reflection. I'm thinking a religious Christian goes your way with difficulty, if at all. The question is, is your way Christianity? And that seems not a simple or easy question. The answer may devolve to definition, which is to say it does not resolve. — tim wood
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