You don't have to be a linguist, either. Just as I don't need to be a scientist to know why we don't simply float off into space. — Sapientia

Yes - you have studied this, probably in school, why you don't float into space. I haven't studied how words evolve through time, and I have literarily spent no time thinking about this. I have studied the historical origin of some words, but that's all.

I don't think these more open minded people agree to such a usage.

Yes - you have studied this, probably in school, why you don't float into space. I haven't studied how words evolve through time, and I have literarily spent no time thinking about this. I have studied the historical origin of some words, but that's all. — Agustino

Sure, sure. Or, you're feigning ignorance because it throws a spanner into the works.

Or, you're feigning ignorance because it throws a spanner into the works. — Sapientia

I was honest, but if that interpretation pleases you lol :D - go for it!

I don't think these more open minded people agree to such a usage. — Agustino

You might not think so, but they do. They don't outright reject the concept of gender identity being determined by means other than what you're born with. We are living in the 2010's, not the 1950's.

Does the fact they don't outright reject it mean that they accept it? Of course not.

Does the fact they don't outright reject it mean that they accept it? Of course not. — Agustino

Ok, if you're going to be pendantic, then they accept it.

Ok, if you're going to be pendantic, then they accept it. — Sapientia

Moving the goal posts :)

Moving the goal posts :) — Agustino

Or, to be more precise, out of those people who don't outright reject it, a smaller, but still significant and relatively large number of people accept it; and, as we seem to be progressing towards a more open-minded and accepting society with regards to sexual identity and transgender-related issues, this group may well grow in number, and may well be growing in number as we speak.

I mean, it wasn't that long ago that gay sex was illegal in the UK and classed as a sexual perversion of the same sort as child sexual abuse.

Or, to be more precise, out of those people who don't outright reject it, a smaller, but still significant and relatively large number of people accept it; and, as we seem to be progressing towards a more open-minded and accepting society with regards to sexual identity and transgender-related issues, this group may well grow in number. — Sapientia

I hope not. I'm certainly trying to convince people to accept nature as it is instead of try to fulfil crazy and unnatural desires. But we'll see :)

I hope not. I'm certainly trying to convince people to accept nature as it is instead of try to fulfil crazy and unnatural desires. But we'll see :) — Agustino

Well, you shouldn't be trying to do so in those cases where it'll prevent them from living a better life, because you'll be doing more harm than good. And for the millionth time, it merely seems crazy from your little, narrow perspective. A little modesty wouldn't go amiss. Especially from someone who so frequently rabbits on about virtue. :)

Well, you shouldn't be trying to do so in those cases where it'll prevent them from living a better life, because you'll be doing more harm than good. — Sapientia

I don't think it will prevent them for living a better life. Quite a lot of research shows that people who do successful change sex do have serious psychological issues and continue to suffer. So I think not changing sex, not giving in to an unnatural desire, is the first step to a cure.

And for the millionth time, it merely seems crazy from your little, narrow perspective — Sapientia

It's unnatural. No other living being but man has and acts on this desire.

I don't think it will prevent them for living a better life. — Agustino

Now there's a surprise. Well, maybe you should actually meet some of these people. I assure you, there are plenty of them who are indeed living a better life, but carry on believing otherwise if it makes you feel better.

It's unnatural. No other living being but man has and acts on this desire. — Agustino

Lol. What other being is capable of doing so?

Now there's a surprise. Well, maybe you should actually meet some of these people. I assure you, there are plenty of them who are indeed living a better life, but carry on believing otherwise if it makes you feel better. — Sapientia

Not according to statistical research published. No doubt there are some people, just not the majority of them.

Lol. What other being is capable of doing so? — Sapientia

I thought you'd ask this. No other being even attempts to. Even men hasn't attempted to for a large share of his history. Again - I simply don't think it is good. It goes against our biology, it goes against who we are, and is therefore MOST LIKELY to be harmful. I think there's better ways to deal with the desire for changing your sex than actually acting on it.

Not according to statistical research published. No doubt there are some people, just not the majority of them. — Agustino

I've not looked into it, but I trust you conducted your research impartially with no hidden agenda.

I've not looked into it, but I trust you conducted your research impartially with no hidden agenda. — Sapientia

I've just researched it out of curiosity (so no agenda). I've decided against it before that though. People can decieve themselves that they are happy too, as Aristotle showed.

I thought you'd ask this. No other being even attempts to. — Agustino

Hilarious! You've got me there. I know from first hand experience, because, as part of a study, I've been observing the behaviour of sharks, and for years now, I've seen no sign of them attempting to get gender reassignment surgery.

Hilarious! You've got me there. I know from first hand experience, because, as part of a study, I've been observing the behaviour of sharks, and for years now, I've seen no sign of them attempting to get gender reassignment surgery. — Sapientia

Have you seen signs of them being unhappy with their gender? :D

He's committed statistic sorcery by catergoy error. Here he is treating transition (biological) as if it were THE answer to all of a person's dissatisfactions and fears, as if it were going to turn them in people who were bouncing off the walls at how great their live now. But that's never been the case. Transition (biological) has only ever been less than perfect measure against disphoria. It never been a "Magic Pill" which is meant to make someone utterly content with their lives or a solution to all their problems.

It's all sort of beside the point with respect to the specific topic of the thread though, as that's about transition (social), not biology. Hormones and surgery aren't needed for someone to be valued as part of the gender or sex the identify. That takes no alteration of biology at all.

Have you seen signs of them being unhappy with their gender? :D — Agustino

It's laughable because it's a blatant category error. You can't compare the occurence of such a phenomenon to species insufficiently advanced for it to have arisen. If sharks and other creatures were to evolve to our level, and develop to where we are in history, then you could make such a comparison.

It's laughable because it's a blatant category error. You can't compare the occurence of such a phenomenon to species insufficiently advanced for it to have arisen. If sharks and other creatures were to evolve to our level, and develop to where we are in history, then you could make such a comparison. — Sapientia

The more important fact is that such species do not display a desire to change their sex. They accept their nature as it is. Man is the only animal that sometimes tries to deny his nature.

No-one is born with any sex. It's a category of language we use, we apply to someone with a body.

People are no doubt born with biology, with a body with specific parts, but this is not the language we use to talk about them. We are free talk about anyone as part of any catergory, all while niether being ignorant of their biology or pretending it is something else.

The more important fact is that such species do not display a desire to change their sex. They accept their nature as it is. Man is the only animal that sometimes tries to deny his nature. — Agustino

Again, this is laughably fallacious. They don't display a desire to become armchair philosophers either.

You can't possibly know that. The requirement of hearing animal thoughts is impossible. "Denial of nature" is entirely a lingistical. It's about what people say about each other, about where they tell each other they belong. Since you don't have access to interpersonal animal language, you can even start to speculate on what they might be saying to each other.

You can't possibly know that. The requirement of hearing animal thoughts is impossible. "Denial of nature" is entirely a lingistical. It's about what people say about each other, about where they tell each other they belong. Since you don't have access to interpersonal animal language, you can even start to speculate on what they might be saying to each other. — TheWillowOfDarkness

Yes, that sort of thing is largely speculation, but I reckon he's right about other species lacking the desire to change sex. But even if so, he's still wrong on another level, because his inference about what this means is fallacious.

No-one is born with any sex. It's a category of language we use, we apply to someone with a body. — TheWillowOfDarkness

This is such crass nonsense I won't even bother to address it. It just shows how insane progressivism has become.

Again, this is laughably fallacious. They don't display a desire to become armchair philosophers either. — Sapientia

No - desire can exist even if they don't have the capacity for making it actual.