Ah yes, I remember fondly the passages of Voltaire in which he proclaimed the human right to own guns; the eloquence of D'alembert in his passionate defense of rifles; Spinoza's more geometrico proofs of the divine right to arms. However could we have forgotten? — StreetlightX
I hear them saying that it is not even a human right and never was a right of any kind in the first place. — WISDOMfromPO-MO
This clause actually forms a personal basis for gun ownership clearer than the 2nd Amendment, as it's not complicated by the strange language of state militias. That is, this is a general right to protect against intruders, not just against the government. If I present a compelling argument that I cannot be safe without a gun, am I not entitled to one? — Hanover
I'm not saying that this is how it should be understood, only that there is alot more ambiguity here than what I think you're suggesting. Arguably, a large part of the gun debate turns upon just this contested notion of what 'security' ought to look like. — StreetlightX
So, thankfully my government doesn't allow dangerous weapons to be widely available. — Baden
Groups of people that are being shot up with a fair amount of regularity should count as vulnerable peoples don't you think? As for the increasing intensity, every new shooting acts as an exclamation point to their original call for gun control. Even the slaughter of twenty elementary school children didn't move the needle. Indifference can be maddening.Meanwhile, the people who are supposedly champions of the oppressed and vulnerable — WISDOMfromPO-MO
And wasn't that at least part of Baden's clandestine agenda, — Hanover
Groups of people that are being shot up with a fair amount of regularity should count as vulnerable peoples don't you think?... — ProbablyTrue
As for the increasing intensity, every new shooting acts as an exclamation point to their original call for gun control. Even the slaughter of twenty elementary school children didn't move the needle. Indifference can be maddening... — ProbablyTrue
Or if asked if they would be okay with a gun free America they answer honestly. You can't blame them for that. — ProbablyTrue
The US could get along without guns. Other countries already do. Plus, this fervor for and fetishisation of guns by the right is fairly recent, despite what the NRA would have you think. This article goes into the history at length. — ProbablyTrue
This right to arms is enshrined in our Constitution, but unintended consequences are a hallmark of the best made plans. I see no reason why we can't reevaluate the rules we made/make for ourselves if the consequences become too great. Do you think the great thinkers of the enlightenment would frown upon us reconsidering vague and archaic documents put in place by men of yore? The Bill of Rights is America's holy book, but it should not be seen as eternal and infallible. — ProbablyTrue
It is the police who are shooting those people a lot of the time.
It is those police shootings--and police brutality without guns like in the case of Eric Garner ("I can't breathe!")--that the protests and media scrutiny have been about.
Yet, we have liberals/progressives saying that the police and military should have guns and that the rest of us have no right to possess guns. — WISDOMfromPO-MO
Admittedly I didn't search forever, but I couldn't find info on the last 20 years. I did find info from 1999-2015 here. From what I can tell it has been pretty consistent.The rate of gun related deaths in the U.S. is down from 20 years ago. — WISDOMfromPO-MO
The U.S. could get along without cheese. — WISDOMfromPO-MO
I have the natural right to defend my life and property.
I have the right to own the proper means of defending my life and property.
Firearms are one proper means of defending my life and property.
Therefore, I have a right to own firearms. — Thorongil
You could, but owning a tank is an impractical means of self-defense. — Thorongil
It would probably be the same burglar as the one the NRA thinks would wait for a responsible gun owner to retrieve the gun from their child-proof gun safe.it would be a strange sort of burglar, rapist, or murderer who waited while you grabbed your keys and hopped inside a seventy ton vehicle with which to engage him. — Thorongil
It would practical against a tyrannical government or an invading force. — ProbablyTrue
but it's not clear to me that it is necessary or is serving the intended purpose the majority of the time. — ProbablyTrue
It would probably be the same burglar as the one the NRA thinks would wait for a responsible gun owner to retrieve the gun from their child-proof gun safe. — andrewk
Your point being?Which would take more or less time than the calling the cops and waiting for them to show up with... guns to the scene?
I actually think that a smaller guerrilla force with less powerful weaponry can hold its own and even defeat stronger militaries, for the outcome of a war has as much if not more to do with the morale on either side as it does with advanced firepower. The U.S. has learned this the hard way in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq. — Thorongil
That being said, even if the numbers have increased, armed citizens are certainly not the answer. There are almost zero instances of an armed citizen defending himself with force against abusive law enforcement. — ProbablyTrue
Admittedly I didn't search forever, but I couldn't find info on the last 20 years. I did find info from 1999-2015 here. From what I can tell it has been pretty consistent. — ProbablyTrue
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