Jim, first makes fun of us for being prepared with a readily accessible gun. Then he makes fun of us for safely securing that firearm in a safe. I wonder if Jim realizes that there are quite a few options out there other than a vintage turning combination safe? — Gun lobbyists web-site
You asked if the people being shot all of the time are not part of the oppressed and vulnerable. I pointed out that it is the police--the ones those aforementioned liberals/progressives are fine with possessing guns while they say that the rest of us have no business possessing guns--who are shooting those unarmed, vulnerable, oppressed people. — WISDOMfromPO-MO
"Yet the current rate of firearm violence is still far lower than in 1993, when the rate was 6.21 such deaths per 100,000 people, compared with 3.4 in 2016." — WISDOMfromPO-MO
I actually think that a smaller guerrilla force with less powerful weaponry can hold its own and even defeat stronger militaries, for the outcome of a war has as much if not more to do with the morale on either side as it does with advanced firepower. The U.S. has learned this the hard way in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq. — Thorongil
Then you need to look up the statistics. There are conservatively tens of thousands more defensive gun uses each year than homicides due to guns. They clearly serve their intended purpose the majority of the time. — Thorongil
The government gets to have and do a lot of things your average citizen doesn't. Police and military having weapons while others do not is not frightening to me. The military has Tomahawk missiles, but I'm not bummed I can't have one. Also, police brutality is a separate topic. — ProbablyTrue
Do we need to be at an all time high to call for changes to regulations? Just because things were once worse doesn't mean they couldn't be better than they are currently. — ProbablyTrue
Your subjective feelings are irrelevant. The question is: is owning a gun for one's personal protection a right? — WISDOMfromPO-MO
Yet, not only do I hear those same people implying or directly stating that a right in the original Bill of Rights should be removed from the Constitution, I hear them saying that it is not even a human right and never was a right of any kind in the first place. — WISDOMfromPO-MO
Your failure to provide a single detail makes that seem a very doubtful claim. But if you consider the argument 'There's a robust defence of my claim, that I can't produce but is somewhere out there on Google, so go and look for it' convincing then there's really nothing to discuss.Strong boxes and security cases exist, which can be hand activated, that are secure and enable quick access if needed. — Thorongil
In the other gun thread, the argument I gave in favor of retaining the constitutional right to bear arms is that this right is grounded in the natural right to self-defense. Put in a syllogism, it looks like this:
I have the natural right to defend my life and property.
I have the right to own the proper means of defending my life and property.
Firearms are one proper means of defending my life and property.
Therefore, I have a right to own firearms.
This was the chief principled argument I gave, but apparently, it's easier to endlessly compose infantile, sarcastic quips than engage with such arguments, judging by the responses. — Thorongil
The question is: is owning a gun for one's personal protection a right? — WISDOMfromPO-MO
You seem to be assuming that using a gun for self-defense is a form of excessive force. Why do you think that? — Thorongil
It's excessive force to shoot someone that you could have disabled in a less dangerous way. — Sapientia
Could? How do you know that? Do you have experience warding off would-be murderers, thieves, and rapists by other means? What are those means? What if the intruder to your home is armed, for example? Are these means still the most effective? — Thorongil
There's practically no situation where a gun, rather than some other form of self-defence, would be necessary. — Sapientia
If you need to ask me what those other means are, then "you must have a very poor imagination". — Sapientia
Perhaps planting mines around my house would be most effective, so let's all go ahead and do that, and see where that gets us. — Sapientia
I heard you the first time. — Thorongil
Oh I can imagine them, but that still doesn't make them as effective as a gun. — Thorongil
You still haven't shown that. — Thorongil
You've merely repeated the claim. — Thorongil
Perhaps? How so? — Thorongil
I have the natural right to defend my life and property. — Thorongil
Firearms are one proper means of defending my life and property. — Thorongil
Since you have not provided any evidence of that unassailability, there is nothing to prove wrong. It's just an opinion, and one you're entitled to.I just think that the right to bear [guns] is pretty unassailable. I'm open to being proven wrong...
No, you do not have a natural right to defend your property. Or at least, that natural right is not recognized in the vast majority of modern legislature, where killing someone attempting to rob you is going to land you very quickly in jail. — Akanthinos
So is nerve gas, phosphore grenades and impaling the heads of your enemies on spikes in front of your driveway. — Akanthinos
I never said one needed to kill someone with a gun to prevent a robbery. It's irritating having to repeat myself so often, but as I have said several times, defensive gun uses often don't involve firing a shot. — Thorongil
You have no proof of that. This is just an appeal to extremes. — Thorongil
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