With 372,000 births each day, I find vasectomies are the best method of birth and population control. I want to make that clear now. — XanderTheGrey
Should we really place any moral value on individual human life? — XanderTheGrey
Personally I can see no value. — XanderTheGrey
... mass murder/suicide... screams the truth, that our lives mean nothing to the universe — XanderTheGrey
... and that their is no innocence, just as their is no guilt. There is no right or wrong, there is only whats desired, and whats not desired. — XanderTheGrey
Those of us in the 1st world suffer from a terrible delusion that our everyday lifestyle choices are not responsible for the vast amount of suffering on the otherside of the globe; that its "someone else's fualt" that there are "bad guys" to blame. — XanderTheGrey
I think the most I would ever seek to do is help create an online movement that encourages mass murder, and murder-suicide, and addresses its true effects on the rest of the population. — XanderTheGrey
And, I disagree that the part of us that is authentic is also culturally mediated, because by definition, authentic means uncontaminated, untouched, unaffected.
Now, what I think you're trying to say, and I'll agree, is that a 100% authentic interaction is impossible, because we need structure in communication and interaction. That implies the necessity for language, social norms, and other forms of "cultural mediation". — Aurora
And stupid me didn't notice that this thread was a month old. Just dove in, Didn't remember I had been here before, either. — Bitter Crank
I think that human life, like any other form in the universe, is neither worthless nor priceless.
All these so called laws and moral and ethical codes we have contrived are simply guidelines and not absolute truths. How can they be absolute truths when they were artificially created ? They are required in society for structure, but the problem arises when people mistake them for absolute truths and are shocked when "criminals" violate them :) — Aurora
Not everyone who kills is evil, and not everyone who goes to church and never harms a fly is innocent, either. So, I think homicide is bad, but there are evils that are orders of magnitude worse than homicide. They look harmless or even noble on the surface, but are far worse than homicide. When you subject another person to suffering (mental, emotional, physical) and force them to live their entire life with that suffering, that, to me, is far worse than putting that person out of his/her misery. — Aurora
As you indicate, values are not absolute, but I think some are fundamental to our nature as human beings. Among those fundamental values is the value placed on human life - both for individual humans and for humanity as a whole. By calling a value "fundamental" I mean two things. First - I think they are built into the physical, biological, and genetic structure of who we are. We have evolved as social animals. We have no choice but to like each other. Second, no society could survive without these fundamental values. These are not "guidelines." They are bedrock foundations for human social life. No group of humans could survive for long without them. — T Clark
Well, ok. As a person who can see the end of his life on the horizon, I agree that there are many things worse than my death. Are you willing, as XandertheGrey is, to extend that to the deaths of thousands, tens of thousands, millions of people? Are there things worse than that? What are they? I think I understand XtG's answer to that question. His take is utilitarian. Kill all the people who use more than their share of resources so that people who have access to less than their fair share will have a chance. Is that ok with you? In principle if not in practice? — T Clark
The reason for pointing out that this is a guideline is a hint that says, "Don't think of this rule/law in absolute terms. There is no guarantee that it will not be violated." You might think this is a silly and unnecessary little footnote, i.e. it is obvious to everyone that this is not an absolute guarantee, but then if it is so damn obvious, why are people so friggin shell shocked when something goes wrong in their lives ? Getting robbed, car getting vandalized, family member getting murdered. If they know that no law is absolute, what's the problem ? — Aurora
To live and suffer is orders of magnitude worse than death, in my opinion. I don't know about you, but I'd rather be shot dead by my worst enemy than be treated like crap by my fellow man every single day for 80 (or whatever) years. Oh, this is an easy choice for me :) — Aurora
You get to choose the values in your own life. If you think it makes more sense to end your life than to live with the suffering, well, knock yourself out. You don't get to choose for others. A billion bad marriages is reason to kill a billion people? A lot of life stinks. A lot is ok. Some is wonderful. Suck it up. — T Clark
I don't understand why you keep putting words in my mouth. For the last time, I'm not making any kind of choice for anyone else. Frankly, I don't give half a horseshit what anyone else does with his/her life.
I'm only answering the question - "What is worse than xyz ?" — Aurora
This is a thread which is, at least partly, about mass murder. My question - What is worse than mass murder? not what is worse than xyz?, is what you responded too. I think you said that the death of thousands, or millions, or billions of people is better than the suffering of thousands, or millions, or billions of people. Maybe I misunderstood. Maybe you did not speak clearly enough. A billion people will not decide individually to die. That decision will be made by Joseph Stalin, Donald Trump, or XandertheGrey. — T Clark
But, if I were a neutral observer and it were totally out of my hands, I'd say that it is worse overall, for the people, for the planet, and for the universe ... for those people to stick around and suffer vs for them to die (assuming those are the only 2 choices available and that living and being happy is not an option). This is what I was alluding to in my previous response above. — Aurora
Does this set of conditions represent the current situation in the world or is you point hypothetical? — T Clark
I don't get it. If killing a bunch of people would make the world a better place - and would be better for the people being killed - why wouldn't you kill them?
If killing or dying is a reasonable solution for suffering, isn't it hypocritical for you not to kill yourself? — T Clark
Or is your life more fortunate than the masses. If that's the case, why would you think others value their lives less than you do yours. — T Clark
Do you really think it makes any difference to the universe, or even the world, what happens to human beings individually or as a group? That's an oddly self-important view of our place in creation. — T Clark
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