You ready to listen, or still just waiting for your turn to talk? — creativesoul
At conception, we are all void of any and all thought and belief...moral belief notwithstanding — creativesoul
Since Virgil's understanding is not relevant to my description and argument, what is the relevance of this?Calculus cannot be understood prior to understanding arithmetic — creativesoul
Moral belief systems cannot be understood as such by an agent until s/he has one to talk about. Thought and belief begins simply and gains in it's complexity. — creativesoul
The fact that it is mutually beneficial to his and Vulcan's well-being (life, health, happiness). — VagabondSpectre
The first is that Virgil's behaviour is driven by his thought and belief. — creativesoul
The second is that behaviour can be both mutually beneficial and immoral. Thus, being mutually beneficial does not constitute being moral. — creativesoul
His actions were driven by his instincts, his "intuition" not his "thought and belief".. This is a critical distinction you have consistently neglected to address. — VagabondSpectre
No. Fixed emotional responses are not "mental correlations drawn between objects of physiological sensory perception and/or the agent's own state of 'mind"All thought and belief consists entirely in and/or of mental correlations drawn between 'objects' of physiological sensory perception and/or the agent's own state of 'mind'. — creativesoul
What counts as instinct or intuition? — creativesoul
All thought and belief consists entirely in and/or of mental correlations drawn between 'objects' of physiological sensory perception and/or the agent's own state of 'mind'.
— creativesoul
No. Fixed emotional responses are not "mental correlations drawn between objects of physiological sensory perception and/or the agent's own state of 'mind"
If you prick the foot of a newborn baby, there is no mental correlation between foot pricking and crying, the response of crying due to pain is hardwired directly into the mind and nervous system of the baby. — VagabondSpectre
I'm still waiting for an example of something that is mutually beneficial but also immoral... — VagabondSpectre
What counts as instinct or intuition?
— creativesoul
It's the set of emotions and isntincts that naturally guide us toward mutually beneficial regimes of behavior. (I.E: sympathy and empathy providing an emotional reward for sharing). — VagabondSpectre
No?
When did I say that autonomous reflexes(which is what you're talking about is) were thought and belief? I didn't. So, yet another red herring, non-sequitur, strawman. You'll have to do better than that. — creativesoul
Capitalism rewards mutually beneficial but immoral behaviour. Have a look for yourself. Being mutually beneficial doesn't require being fair, nor just, nor good, nor moral. — creativesoul
Harvey Weinstein's behaviour was immoral. Ignoring it was mutually beneficial to all who did and him. — creativesoul
Set it out. — creativesoul
Obviously his behavior was not beneficial for his victims. Please try again. — VagabondSpectre
No. I pointed to innate empathy and I think that's enough, refute that and I'll offer more, — VagabondSpectre
They aspired to financial success, and achieved it, by virtue of keeping quiet and letting him make them lots of money. — creativesoul
So, then moral behaviour must be mutually beneficial to everyone? — creativesoul
You're a twit.
Empathy is being able to put yourself in another's shoes... That's most certainly not innate. — creativesoul
You want me to make a comprehensive list of all of our instincts which promote cooperation? — VagabondSpectre
Yes, I do. You asserted that instincts and emotions are both innate and count as moral intuition...
Justify your claim. — creativesoul
I already did. Empathy. Our penchant to feel something when we see others being harmed. At it's core it's an emotion, not something you learn. — VagabondSpectre
Now your changing the subject... talking about moral agreements. I reject your criterion for what counts as moral behaviour, and have subsequently justified that claim. You're all gratuitious assertion. That's what makes you a twit. Now worries though, I'm a dickhead sometimes... — creativesoul
In order for a moral agreement/system to actually exist between two or more parties, they must necessarily share some beliefs about what constitutes harm and happiness. Where conflict might arise that can infringe or damage our mutually shared values/beliefs, it becomes rational and appealing for us to come to an agreement in order to protect those values
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