digging some dirt — Agustino
Unproven allegations. Trump may be guilty, but the ridiculousness of this situation is that Wayfarer has, for more than a year, been like a little child, and every time he reads something negative about Trump he immediately believes it and jumps cheering anti-Trump slogans. It's almost as if his heart skips a beat... That's the annoying part, not the part that he just dislikes Trump. Many people dislike Trump, and in certain regards, I dislike him too, but there's a difference between disliking someone and acting the way Wayfarer does.What's dirt? — Benkei
Hmmm... do you think the legal system is capable to deal with those who have real power? I don't really think so.If these are crimes and it doesn't bring him down, I'll be disappointed both in the legal and political system of the USA. — Benkei
Sure, and I actually quite agree with a lot of the analysis you posted in the previous comment.We are allowed to have favourites here without that being stupid and that goes both ways. You are a bit of a Trumpet, I'm obviously not. That's fine, we can still talk about what he does even if we have certain preconceptions about the person - especially if we're open about them. — Benkei
Yeah, I agree. I think even if Trump is guilty of collusion, he was smart enough in doing it, and it won't get back to him anyway.Nevertheless, I think there's a real possibility that nothing will come of this with respect to Trump even if he directed Flynn and others to contact the Russians. — Benkei
Wayfarer has, for more than a year, been like a little child.... — Agustino
I disagree Bitter.My guess is that in closed door, off the record meetings, the President and his lawyers/advisors are probably frank and honest about the progress of the war, the defense against the investigators, the pursuit of the terrorists, or what have you. — Bitter Crank
Hmmm... do you think the legal system is capable to deal with those who have real power? I don't really think so. — Agustino
I just don't see him contradicting himself. — Bitter Crank
I don't think more new damage is going to be done... other than Trump just himself creates.Let's really hope the shit well and truly hits the fan before too much more damage is done to America and the rest of the world. — Wayfarer
And if he was colluding with Putin, you think that he would be praising him?! Are you people so dumb?! If I'm colluding with someone, I don't want the public to know that, do I? So what will I do? I will say in public that the respective person is the absolute worst, while behind closed doors doing his politics. If he really was colluding, you think Putin would want him to get ousted from the White House? A puppet President is almost his dream.The basic point about Russian involvement in the US election is, I think, beyond dispute. Russia wanted Clinton to lose, partly because Putin hates her, but also because I think that Russia thinks she would have been a much tougher adversary. Whereas Trump - all you have to do is flatter him, and he'll think you're terrific (if he perceives you as a powerful man, someone whose flattery is significant.) Putin plays him like a fiddle; Trump is obnoxiously rude about almost everyone, including people who work for him, and people on his own side of politics. But notice he will never say anything negative about Putin, whom he accords great respect. After the G7 meeting, he said he believed Putin over and above his own intelligence agencies (a claim he was later obliged to retract.) — Wayfarer
That's not true. He's not been rude to important leaders of state like China's President, etc.Trump is obnoxiously rude about almost everyone — Wayfarer
The second question is why did Mueller charge Flynn only with lying? The last thing a prosecutor ever wants to do is to charge a key witness with lying.
I think we do. A Republican majority Congress will only impeach Trump if they collectively come to the conclusion that siding with Trump will make them lose big (or should I say bigly). And that to happen there obviously should be more shown than now is precented. And things like Trump firing Mueller. After the Midterms if the DNC takes charge (again an if), it's a different thing.You people really have no understanding of politics. You think it's so easy to get caught with something like this. At that level, if they're smart, it's almost impossible. — Agustino
Agustino, it's totally obvious Trump clearly didn't understand that things that he was doing with Russians would be anything illegal or something that would create a shitstorm. And clearly the thing wasn't presented to Trump as something treasonous, that he would now be betraying his country. It was more like, you get multiple things done with one smart stroke.And if he was colluding with Putin, you think that he would be praising him?! Are you people so dumb?! If I'm colluding with someone, I don't want the public to know that, do I? — Agustino
No, if he had been totally ignorant, he would have gone himself to meet with Russian officials. Why didn't he?For Trump it was a win-win: Russians help him, he helps Russia and gets a diplomatic breakthrough. Everybody wins. Or so he thought. That the FBI would basically have to look at this likely didn't come to his mind. He was even when the campaign was on having backchannels on building a Trump Tower in Moscow. Just as Metaphysician Undercover above states, Trump publicly stated Russians to openly to look for the e-mails, so basically he was totally ignorant what it would mean. — ssu
Remember that before the whole mess he was actually contemplating meeting Putin when he still was a candidate. And meeting him even before the inauguration. So Trump was very eager to meet Putin. Naturally people like Manafort understood keep a low profile, because they understood that these actions have to be made behind closed doors.No, if he had been totally ignorant, he would have gone himself to meet with Russian officials. Why didn't he? — Agustino
Yeah, saying he wants to do it vs actually doing it are two different things. As far as things go, and apart from the Comey firing (which wasn't due to just the Russia thing, though that certainly played a part), Trump, even if he has colluded with Russia, has played his cards in a very smart way.Remember that before the whole mess he was actually contemplating meeting Putin when he still was a candidate. — ssu
Basically actual Trump administration policy towards Russia hasn't changed much. (Even if Trump made a strange purposal of having an US-Russian “impenetrable Cyber Security unit” to address issues like the risk of cyber meddling in elections.) That's because his administration, people like Kelly, McMaster and likely even Tillerson aren't so pro-Russia. (Yep, likely Tillerson understands that he's in a different position that CEO of an oil Company.)And I'm not talking about tweets and things he says. Yes, he clearly cannot control his mouth. But he hasn't shown that he's incapable of controlling his actions. — Agustino
it's notable the absolute denial at every stage that the Trump campaign and his administration has said, which have been shown to be false. — ssu
And the real question is why he is doing all that? If it would be that they just got help from Russians, because they hated Hillary, why all the denying and obstruction of justice?I think this will be the kind of thing that will bring Trump down; he’s not doing back room business deals now, it’s the real thing, involving real claims of perjury, lying and obstruction of justice, in matters which directly affect the security of the United States. — Wayfarer
(see The Hidden History of Trump’s First Trip to Moscow)As Trump tells it, the idea for his first trip to Moscow came after he found himself seated next to the Soviet ambassador Yuri Dubinin. This was in autumn 1986; the event was a luncheon held by Leonard Lauder, the businessman son of Estée Lauder. Dubinin’s daughter Natalia “had read about Trump Tower and knew all about it,” Trump said in his 1987 bestseller, The Art of the Deal.
Trump continued: “One thing led to another, and now I’m talking about building a large luxury hotel, across the street from the Kremlin, in partnership with the Soviet government.”
Trump’s chatty version of events is incomplete. According to Natalia Dubinina, the actual story involved a more determined effort by the Soviet government to seek out Trump. In February 1985 Kryuchkov complained again about “the lack of appreciable results of recruitment against the Americans in most Residencies.” The ambassador arrived in New York in March 1986. His original job was Soviet ambassador to the U.N.; his daughter Dubinina was already living in the city with her family, and she was part of the Soviet U.N. delegation.
Dubinin wouldn’t have answered to the KGB. And his role wasn’t formally an intelligence one. But he would have had close contacts with the power apparatus in Moscow. He enjoyed greater trust than other, lesser ambassadors.
Dubinina said she picked up her father at the airport. It was his first time in New York City. She took him on a tour. The first building they saw was Trump Tower on Fifth Avenue, she told Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper. Dubinin was so excited he decided to go inside to meet the building’s owner. They got into the elevator. At the top, Dubinina said, they met Trump.
The ambassador—“fluent in English and a brilliant master of negotiations”—charmed the busy Trump, telling him: “The first thing I saw in the city is your tower!”
Dubinina said: “Trump melted at once. He is an emotional person, somewhat impulsive. He needs recognition. And, of course, when he gets it he likes it. My father’s visit worked on him [Trump] like honey to a bee.”
This encounter happened six months before the Estée Lauder lunch. In Dubinina’s account she admits her father was trying to hook Trump.
So, I correctly guessed Manafort then Flynn. Let's see if I can make it three for three. Next is Kushner. — Michael
in every clip that I see now of Kushner and his wife — Metaphysician Undercover
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