I'll be voting 'in' on the basis that the hated bureaucrats need strengthening against the hated capitalists, multinationals being larger than nations and corporate capitalism ruling the world almost unchecked. — unenlightened
But at the margin, the EU is more democratic than Megashite Industries ltd, and Dodgy Dave's bullingdon bullies. — unenlightened
Why are you wary of centralised power?My objection isn't due to nationalist pride, but due to a reasonable wariness of the sort of political power structure that you're endorsing. — Sapientia
Maybe you don't, but I do ;)You say that "we" would become stronger, but who really is "we"? I don't think that "we" are, or should be, bureaucrats in very high up, powerful, positions of authority. I don't want a President of Europe. — Sapientia
Why?Because I'm against the centralisation of power on that kind of scale. — Sapientia
Are you serious? Don't you see how Putin is dividing Europe? What is he doing with Viktor Orban in Hungary? Why do you think he's getting in bed with him? That guy is a wanna-be dictator - he has severely restricted the freedom of the Press in Hungary already. Putin met with the Greek leaders as well, and has encouraged them to leave EU and join him based on receiving help with the Greek debt problems. He has encouraged conflicts among European nations. Why has he threatened all countries where missile shields are being built, including Poland and Romania (BOTH of which are NATO AND EU members)? Why have there recently been many signs that an invasion of Estonia (NATO member) is prepared? If UK exits EU, he'll be so happy - big party at Moscow that day!Out of those countries, only Poland is a member state of the European Union and of NATO. And a threat isn't the same thing as a direct threat. But, yes, I'm not denying Russia's aggression, nor that it should be a cause for concern. And I'm glad that there have been sanctions. I just think that you're going overboard with the whole thing. — Sapientia
War is not an inconvenience to capital. — unenlightened
Why are you wary of centralised power? — Agustino
But if Europe was one country, we would be able to increase and regulate better our trade globally, bring more security to our people, and spur development and growth through all the current countries of Europe through more integrated collaboration. — Agustino
Because the further away the power from the people, the less likely the interests of the people will be represented. — Sapientia
Not necessarily. — Bitter Crank
I think I may have made my mind up. I will vote to stay. Although the EU could do with some reform, I think that it is better to remain a part of it. For me, it has to do with things like this: http://www.theguardian.com/money/work-blog/2013/jan/24/europe-legacy-uk-workplaces — Sapientia
Several [international companies] have been accused of using legal methods to minimise their tax bills.
In Google's case, its tax structure allows it to pay tax in the Republic of Ireland, even when sales appear to relate to the UK.
In January, it struck a deal with UK tax authorities to pay an extra £130m in tax for the period from 2005, but that deal was heavily criticised.
The UK Public Accounts Committee (PAC) said the £130m settlement "seems disproportionately small", compared with the size of its UK business. — BBC News
Europe's competition authorities have been examining whether some deals struck by big companies with national tax authorities amount to illegal state aid.
In April, the EU unveiled plans to force large companies to disclose more about their tax affairs.
They will have to declare publicly how much tax they pay in each EU country as well as any activities carried out in specific tax havens.
The rules on "country-by-country reporting" would affect multinational firms with more than €750m in sales. — BBC News
corporatist, centralised quasi-State — mcdoodle
Germany, France, Holland, Spain, Italy, and so forth all have ancient histories as States — Bitter Crank
both Germany and Italy are not so ancient, as they only became unified states in the 19th century — mcdoodle
The implementation of the European union seems (based on my really fragmentary knowledge here) to have begun, and continued, as a complex bureaucracy. Analogously. it would be like the American Federal Civil Service rising to its present prominence as the continuing government without a Declaration and subsequent War of Independence.
If this all holds water at all, I can see why there would be a strong feeling within the electorate for not being an integral part of the bureaucratic structure of the EU, while remaining an important peripheral part of the EU.
Either outcome has upsides and downsides. Wish you all all the best — Bitter Crank
Rule Britannia, get out. I'm cheering for you guys! — The Great Whatever
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