The Bab's metaphysics of stations.

MysticMonist

The Bab, founder of the Baha'i faith offers a compelling philosophic principal that solves many issues in philosophy and comparative religion.
The Bab explains that reality consists of multiple stations or layers that are simultaneously true in regards to reality on their respective station. In fact, understanding of the lower stations is needed to appreciate and access understanding of the higher stations. This explains how we can both have true human freedom and total divine soveriegnity. How we can have an individual identity yet also be unified in God.
I'm going to try to provide two examples of this principal.
First, Abrahamic religions teach that the human being is a created creature and servant by and to God. Our human nature is fundamentally separate from the Godhead. We access God thru prayer and God's grace.
Dharmic religions see that our true nature is the same as the universe. In some Hinduism our nature is divine and in some Buddhism our nature is ultimately empty, there is no self.
How can we be all these things a created servant, a non-existent illusuon, and part of Divine being? We exist (or don't) as all these aspects at the same time. The prophet Issiah when encountering and being purified by God demonstrates this. He was a humble servant, fully mortal, and said He had "unclean lips". The coal annihilated him, he was undone in the Divine presence. Then the Spirit of God filled him and he spoke with the Divine Voice.
Second example: again use of a person in Jesus. Jesus acts as a servant praying to God and as a Messiah annointed by God, and as God Himself. Jesus possessed all these stations.

T Clark

The Bab explains that reality consists of multiple stations or layers that are simultaneously true in regards to reality on their respective station. In fact, understanding of the lower stations is needed to appreciate and access understanding of the higher stations. This explains how we can both have true human freedom and total divine soveriegnity. How we can have an individual identity yet also be unified in God. — MysticMonist

This kind of discussion always sends me back to high school physics when I first started to grasp how light could have both a particle and a wave nature. I don't mean that I think they have any direct connection. The connection I feel is that they both require an intellectual/spiritual skill. You have to be able to hold two apparently contradictory ideas in your mind at the same time without conflict.

The recognition is that the apparent contradiction is a result of distortions caused by the structure of the mind, not the nature of reality. Like knowing that the shortest distance between two points on a map is not a straight line because the projections used to draw the map distort the geometry of the Earth.

MysticMonist

↪T Clark

I thought you'd like this topic, because it's what you are always saying.

T Clark

I thought you'd like this topic, because it's what you are always saying. — MysticMonist

Hey, I only have about 5 ideas. If you give me an opening, I'm going to take it.

T Clark

I thought you'd like this topic, because it's what you are always saying. — MysticMonist

Also - I added that map metaphor. That's something new. I'm proud of it.

T Clark

The Bab explains that reality consists of multiple stations or layers that are simultaneously true in regards to reality on their respective station. In fact, understanding of the lower stations is needed to appreciate and access understanding of the higher stations. — MysticMonist

As you know, my point about holding two ideas at the same time is at the heart of what philosophy means for me. What about the Bab? Was he interested in the same thing I am - a way to deal with the world in a way our minds aren't structured to allow? Clearly there's more to it.

MysticMonist

a way to deal with the world in a way our minds aren't structured to allow? — T Clark

Sort of. Baha'i theology focuses primarily on the ways God gives revelation. So revelation thru Divine Manifestations (aka prophets) are the only way we can know anything about God and by accepting them we become illumined.

You would probably be interested in the idea of progressive revelation which teaches that all the major world religions' founders (Abraham, Buddha, Moses, Zorastor, Mohammad, etc) are divine Messengers and bring the same, essential message. This revelation is progressive because each Messenger tailors the delivery of the message to the audience of their time and context. They know that the people aren't ready receive the full Truth.

So how can this be with such conflicting teachings? Well the core of each faith, the "holy of holies" is the same, it's the extra teachings (the Trinity, haduths, talmud) that are corruptions or misinterpretions by the instutions and clergy. They are "vain imaginings" and "idle fancies".

T Clark

So how can this be with such conflicting teachings? Well the core of each faith, the "holy of holies" is the same, it's the extra teachings (the Trinity, haduths, talmud) that are corruptions or misinterpretions by the instutions and clergy. They are "vain imaginings" and "idle fancies". — MysticMonist

Hey, put the Bab on one of those Christian forums and see how far he goes. They'd inquisition his ass. From what you say, that's kind of what happened with the Muslims.

But how do the stations fit into that? It seems different. More metaphysical, ontological, intellectual.

MysticMonist

They'd inquisition his as — T Clark

Yeah I got banned from a Christian forum for quoting the Quran to make a theological point. I forgot that for others they aren't interchangeable. It's interesting though how truly simmilar Christain and Islamic theology are.

I'm actually really interested now in ancient biblical intrepration (symbolism and numerology) and am working on a commentary of Psalm 1. Im tempted to share it on Christain sites but that might be too unkind. Again they freak when I reference other faiths, particularly the Quran.

MysticMonist

But how do the stations fit into that? It seems different. More metaphysical, ontological, intellectual. — T Clark

Fit into what? The unity of religions? Well, on surface you have obvious external differences between faiths from simple ritual differences to key theological differences. But faith ultimately (at a higher ststion) isn't about theology. No one is moved by the finer points of the Trinity. These external teachings are at best just particular ways the prophet chose to get his point across, at worst they are corruptions the prophet never taught.
But ultimately all religions point to one divine reality and carry the same core message of Love God, Love neighbor.

T Clark

I'm actually really interested now in ancient biblical intrepration (symbolism and numerology) and am working on a commentary of Psalm 1. Im tempted to share it on Christain sites but that might be too unkind. Again they freak when I reference other faiths, particularly the Quran. — MysticMonist

I'd be interested in seeing your commentary when you finish. It really is kind of naïve of you to expect an open response. But, as my daughter said to me after I'd bought her "Heart of Darkness" for the fourth time - It's endearing.

MysticMonist

↪T Clark

You're daughter thinks heart of darkness is endearing? Hmm...
Every once in a while I find someone willing to dialogue and it makes it worth it. As agnostic/atheist you must also understand why I forget sometimes why faiths that seem so simmilar actually despise each other. Of course isn't true of all Christains and all muslims. But that a fundamentalist Jew, Christain and Muslim and it's amazing they use the same kind of arguments and the same language and emotional appeals.
All three faiths love to argue, for example, about how many witnesses there were of events in their scripture. If it wasn't true wouldn't someone have spoken up?
Doesn't matter if it's giving the Torah on Sinai or the Resurrection or Mohammed reciting the Quran.

The Bab's metaphysics of stations.

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