Why would the banks be toast?But in the future, perhaps some cryptocurrency (most likely not bitcoin) is accepted worldwide as an actual currency. Then the banks are toast. And the banks are not happy about this prospect. — fishfry
Identities are always revealed when trying to exchange crypto for any standard currency. To mask the identity, you'd need to purchase directly with crypto for the most part (and also receive your payments in crypto, not in USD you convert later to crypto).And don't forget that nation states and governments have had the monopoly on legal tender for quite a while now. And then there is the interest the tax office has on any kind of transactions. Hence if you would have a widely accepted "cryptocurrency", then likely it's watered down so that it's easy for the authorities to check the transfers. Because what will regulators see with cryptocurrencies? Money laundering and tax evasion. — ssu
I do think Bitcoin will collapse in value, but the underlying blockchain technology will very likely revolutionise the way we do business. This paper was very interesting.And anyway, likely bitcoin Tulip-mania level bubble bursting will decrease the hype around cryptocurrencies. — ssu
Why would the banks be toast?
And don't forget that nation states and governments have had the monopoly on legal tender for quite a while now. And then there is the interest the tax office has on any kind of transactions. Hence if you would have a widely accepted "cryptocurrency", then likely it's watered down so that it's easy for the authorities to check the transfers. Because what will regulators see with cryptocurrencies? Money laundering and tax evasion. — ssu
Coinbase, Gemini, Cex, Kraken haven't worked for me. I do have an acc with Bitstamp (and an external wallet) though I haven't bought yet. I might invest some after the fall. — Agustino
So if I understand this correctly, instead of appealing to individual investors, Sirin issued these virtual token coins in exchange for cash. Unlike shares of stock, these coins can be purchased or sold by anyone interested by using a Blockchain network as a means of conveyance. The attractive part is that you can potentially trade these coins at any time, or you can hold on to the originals, and if company is successful the value of the coins could rise significantly. — Cavacava
Also, I don't see how people could cash out easily with market caps at levels we're currently seeing. — Benkei
It isn't. — Benkei
If you plan to transfer the Bitcoin to something like Bittrex so that you can buy more than just the three currencies on Coinbase, don't send them directly from Coinbase (big transfer fees). Use gdax.com (if you're signed into Coinbase you'll automatically sign into GDAX). Transfers from Coinbase to GDAX and from GDAX to anywhere else are free. — Michael
How will they manage that? The only way they'll succeed is if they become the miners. Or in collaboration with the government, they change the USD to a blockchain system of their own making. Either way, I think the blockchain technology will win.The evil banksters who have run the world since the beginning of civilization will continue to do so. I tend to agree with that side of the question. — fishfry
I think the government can absolutely outlaw blockchain technologies. Not that this would do anything, because not all governments will outlaw it.The government can't outlaw that. Programs are speech in the sense of the first amendment. I believe [not really up on this] that there have been court rulings to that effect. — fishfry
Why do you think they're weak? I don't think they're weak at all. If China bans miners, US miners will take over, and so on. Because power is distributed through the whole network, and does not rely on any one person or group to keep it going. So to really bust them, there must be a coalition of governments looking to do that. And I don't think that if some governments seek to do that, others won't seek to do the opposite.Of course governments can bust the miners and the exchanges. Those are the weak points in the system where the cryptos meet the real world. — fishfry
It's not available for my region ;)Try Coinbase again. If they finally let me in perhaps they have their technical problems fixed. — fishfry
What I'm not sure on yet, is how one can profit from blockchain technologies - it obviously will be able to help you in your own particular industry (through smart contracts, etc. etc.), but how do you profit from the technology itself, apart from becoming a miner, or opening your own currency? — Agustino
I believe you. That makes sense. On the other hand I'm not sure I believe real world implementations of quantum computers will be around any time soon. I'm a skeptic on that front. — fishfry
2026 or possibly sooner. Remember, it's only an engineering problem now so it's pretty close. — Benkei
Yeah, I have skipped over profiting by buying it and trading it, but that seems more of a "consumer" approach. In becoming a miner or creating your own digital currency, you take a "producer" approach and are liable to access much higher profits if you were successful. You also retain much more control. Only that with something like this technology - apart from starting your own currency or becoming a miner for an existing one - I don't see many alternatives, at least as of yet. But it may be possible that it's just because I'm not sufficiently technically literate in the surrounding matters.Agustino, I am watching what my two Indians are doing with BitCoin and Ethereum how the systems will work with a little skin in the game. My eldest Indian has invested $100.00 in BitCoin while my younger Indian has been mining and nothing but "mining" in Ethereum. — ArguingWAristotleTiff
I would agree with that advice, or at the very least I would say to keep everything invested, but not in just one asset/trade. I've done a bit of stock trading with small sums of money while in University, but that didn't go as well as - *gasp* - sports betting >:O I remember that I struggled to even keep up with inflation and avoid losing with my stocks. Sports betting went much better for me - I guess it was because I also happened to have the right mentors around for the betting.In the last month we have gotten two calls from our younger Indian telling his older brother to sell and sell now. But before days end, he called and said if he didn't sell tell him to hold off. That sounds more like a day trader who has the time and desire, to closely monitor the movements. I keep giving the sage advice my parents did of taking out your original investment and only work the profit, never the initial investment. — ArguingWAristotleTiff
Many people are doing that, but what's the point? Nobody knew back in 2010 that Bitcoin would grow so much. And until recently, even my own knowledge about it came more from hearsay than anything solid - I've only started reading into it and understanding all the factors at play much more recently. So without being intimately familiar with the technology back then it's almost impossible that you could have rationally made the decision to invest a sizeable sum of money in it.All this happening while NicK who does IT for a living is kicking himself for not buying into BitCoin when it first began — ArguingWAristotleTiff
It's not their "energy", it's the computer's X-)I think it is quite appropriate and it appeals to the Wild West attitude in me, when they call those who want to only invest their time and energy for a little piece of the gold, miners. — ArguingWAristotleTiff
Alright, I'm calling that one. ;) 2026 or possibly sooner. Remember, it's only an engineering problem now so it's pretty close. — Benkei
I am watching what my two Indians are doing with BitCoin and Ethereum how the systems will work with a little skin in the game. My eldest Indian has invested $100.00 in BitCoin while my younger Indian has been mining and nothing but "mining" in Ethereum. — ArguingWAristotleTiff
I think it's a clear fact already that digital currency of the crypto kind is superior to our paper fiat currency though. It does make all transactions easier and significantly cheaper. So perhaps in the future, we'll be approaching a situation where everything is exchanged in crypto, not in fiat currencies - so this exchange of Bitcoin/USD becomes irrelevant. — Agustino
The United States isn't the only government, and not everywhere has something like the First Amendment. — Michael
How will they manage that? The only way they'll succeed is if they become the miners. Or in collaboration with the government, they change the USD to a blockchain system of their own making. Either way, I think the blockchain technology will win. — Agustino
I think governments may very well convert the USD or their currencies to a blockchain technology based on the distributed ledger.The question is, will it be issued by government(s) or will it live outside government? — fishfry
Well yeah, that's not surprising, governments and those in power always seek control.Miners are being arrested in Venuzuela for "terrorism," the theory being that since bitcoin can be used for terrorism, if you mine bitcoin you're aiding and abetting terrorism. It's nonsense but that's how politicians work. They don't subscribe to notions of sound argument. They subscribe to notions of raw power. They're the government and whatever it is that's new and revolutionary, they'll control it. — fishfry
Yeah they do. The only question is if they can manage to control something like Bitcoin without incurring serious losses themselves. That they want to control it is one thing, whether this will be possible is another. The example of Venezuela and other North-Korean-like countries, don't carry much weight here. The question is if the big and powerful nations can do anything. For example, if America bans mining, won't Russia and China promote it, and earn billions of dollars for themselves out of it, while America is losing? So yes, maintaining control is important for politicians, but maintaining power is even more important. If they lose power for control, their nation will become much like North Korea is today - lots of control, but very weak.But governments the world over take a dim view of people trying to replace government-controlled money, and that's where they'll bring down the hammer. — fishfry
Right, of course the governments will obtain information that they need to assess taxes, etc. These are relatively unimportant though. The real question is if they can control the actual technology itself.Mining and exchanges are the two points of contact where the blockchain meets the real world. That's how the government will move to suppress and control cryptos. It's already happening. The IRS got a court ruling that Coinbase has to give up the names and info of 14,000 of its largest customers. The SEC has ruled that some ICOs are securities. Venezuela's going after the miners. — fishfry
But no one's stupidity is thick enough to sustain an ever larger balloon. — charleton
I don't think it's a question of stupidity and intelligence. People often take practical matters to be matters of someone being more intelligent than someone else. For example, we often think of Bill Gates, say, as being more intelligent than most other people. But while intelligence can help, it's by no means the critical factor in such decisions.The stupidity was not buying a Bitcoin a year ago and making about 14 000$ of profits. — Akanthinos
Primecoins are an answer to one of the criticisms of bitcoin, which is that mining is a huge waste of electricity and computing power. But if you can have the miners do useful computations as their "proof of work," as it's called, then the economics make more sense. — fishfry
I have skipped over profiting by buying it and trading it, but that seems more of a "consumer" approach. In becoming a miner or creating your own digital currency, you take a "producer" approach and are liable to access much higher profits if you were successful. You also retain much more control. Only that with something like this technology - apart from starting your own currency or becoming a miner for an existing one - I don't see many alternatives, at least as of yet. But it may be possible that it's just because I'm not sufficiently technically literate in the surrounding matters.
How is the mining of Ethereum going? I've heard there are people who have really big "farms" to mine for these currencies, so how is it possible for anyone to compete with them? — Agustino
As an interesting sidenote, they say they make 20 BTC/day, meaning approximately 7200/year. At current prices that translates to :-O - $135 MILLION per year! I think they must have huge profit margins too, since it's a computer business not a people business (people are very expensive).
— Agustino
I would agree with that advice, or at the very least I would say to keep everything invested, but not in just one asset/trade. I've done a bit of stock trading with small sums of money while in University, but that didn't go as well as - *gasp* - sports betting >:O I remember that I struggled to even keep up with inflation and avoid losing with my stocks. Sports betting went much better for me - I guess it was because I also happened to have the right mentors around for the betting. — Agustino
Many people are doing that, but what's the point? Nobody knew back in 2010 that Bitcoin would grow so much. And until recently, even my own knowledge about it came more from hearsay than anything solid - I've only started reading into it and understanding all the factors at play much more recently. So without being intimately familiar with the technology back then it's almost impossible that you could have rationally made the decision to invest a sizeable sum of money in it. — Agustino
It's not their "energy", it's the computer's X-) — Agustino
May I ask, who are these Indians? Is this part of a conversation I missed? I understand that you can mine Etherium with GPUs and that ASICs don't give an advantage, making GPUs the only practical choice for hobbyist miners. — fishfry
Just out of curiosity, why was this?There was a time when people didn't advertise they had kids on the Internet (think WAY back in the day) — ArguingWAristotleTiff
Oh? I still don't use real birthdate >:O (unless it's an official, business related thing). But I think I'm just paranoid. Looking around, many people give just about everything, including their address online :-O - and someone can obtain your rough address (city) from your IP anyway - so basically every website you visit. Moderators here may be able to access those details anyway.Remember when we never used our real birthdate, our real location, our real names? — ArguingWAristotleTiff
I remember hearing similarly naive discussions about the social media and it's positive effects couple of years ago.The thing is, I don't see anything that nations can do to stop crypto. To begin with, politicians are too dumb to even understand what is really happening. And even if they did, it quickly turns into a game theory situation. Those nations which don't outlaw crypto will have a significant advantage in the form of cost-reduction based on the blockchain technology. By automating all transactions that previously were based on some form of human input, billions will be saved. — Agustino
Yeah? But you are. You are a citizen of some country, and if you get income, you have to report it to the government or otherwise you are avoiding taxes. Wouldn't matter if you made a fortune in barter trade and never would have taken actual money. The worth of the barter trade can be measured quite easily. And if it's a too big hassle to go at the user, you simply go after any merchant vendor accepting any cryptocurrency. After that it isn't so cryptic anymore.The other thing is that crypto isn't centralised at all. There is no "one player" who you can take down, and down goes the crypto. It's much like guerrilla warfare - the enemy is everywhere. It's the kind of technology that once started nobody can really control. — Agustino
How do you think so? I think a 50$ note is quite easy for making transactions. You don't even have to have a wallet for the "infrastructure" to use it. That's a relatively low cost for transactions.I think it's a clear fact already that digital currency of the crypto kind is superior to our paper fiat currency though. It does make all transactions easier and significantly cheaper. — Agustino
It's obvious that you are looking at this only from the view of the consumer and how he or she uses money.So perhaps in the future, we'll be approaching a situation where everything is exchanged in crypto, not in fiat currencies - so this exchange of Bitcoin/USD becomes irrelevant. — Agustino
As if consumers would rule the World.11
it is simply the future of currency. a global currency that is instant and doesn't require physical money. more and more people are becoming interested in bitcoin and not only becoming interested but buying into the currency too. international travel will see more people using bitcoin and less people will convert their countries currency. Though it's not in the interest of governments to use bitcoin for their own economies as a lot of wealth on earth is a result of a currency being worth more (USA, Britain etc.) but their may be change as it's popularity increases. it could sort a lot of economic problems around the globe in the future. — David Solman
Just to think of another payment system called barter trade. That's even more difficult to check. But if lets say you are a famous artist and we use barter trade, you give me one of your paintings and I give you a Gulfstream V aircraft, I would assume that the tax officials would be interested about the barter.Couldn't agree more. That is the counterargument. The evil banksters who have run the world since the beginning of civilization will continue to do so. I tend to agree with that side of the question.
But the crypto argument is strong too. A crypto is just a computer program and some people who are willing to run it. The government can't outlaw that. Programs are speech in the sense of the first amendment. I believe [not really up on this] that there have been court rulings to that effect.
Of course governments can bust the miners and the exchanges. Those are the weak points in the system where the cryptos meet the real world.
The battle between the cryptos and the governments/banks is just beginning. Anything could happen. — fishfry
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