I mean, these kinds of work-arounds (in my experience) are conjured up, with the goal of finding work-around. Then the thinkers conceive models of things that they (I should say we) claim matter, ultimately desirable end-goals, — David
Any thoughts? — David
This is open-ended, but... — David
I suspect that what you really mean is that, in relation to something else, such as "the grand scheme of things" as you see it, what presently matters to us seems insignificant. You might note, for example, temporality and the finiteness of things, and fallaciously jump to the conclusion that therefore nothing really matters. — Sapientia
Instrumentality is the concept that we are doing to do to do. — schopenhauer1
Happiness is often temporary, is often frustrated, and leads to more suffering. — schopenhauer1
The world imposes constraints of survival and unwanted pains and the self imposes constraints of boredom into goal-seeking and pleasure seeking, which leads us to the idea of instrumentality. As I said in an earlier post about the implicit message of society:
By being born, it's telling us that various projects of life are supposed to be followed through and carried out. Thus, suicide, though an option, is not preferred. What is preferred is finding coping mechanisms within the structural and contingent constraints.
By being socialized to find reproduction as worthwhile, it is telling us that these projects must continue in perpetuity. The reasons to have others and have them pursue projects is tricky as it ranges from "having a little one that one can influence" to hoping for the possibility that future people may discover more scientific and technological understanding (which itself may be a reification of forms of knowledge).
By being taught to sublimate and concentrate on various tasks-at-hand one is socialized to avoid feelings of angst or dread. One cannot have time or inclination to see our nature striving-at-nothing if one has something to concentrate on. All the better if the concentration embodies the socio-economic values of the embodied culture, as at least it will probably give one a good reputation- mine as well pursue that which provides status and good health if one is going to pursue anything (good worker, good family man, good performer, good athlete, healthy eater, healthy habits, etc.).
Of course with all this is the notion that life is instrumental. We do not want to think goals are chosen out of a desire to not face angst. Rather society, which gave us this language-brain, (which comes with it the ability to feel angst) wants us to then take that feeling and sublimate it with goals that are supposed to be taken as given (guilt is a great tool to ensure this sticks). Do not look passed the socially prescribed goals (of family, work, legally-deemed entertainment, and maintaining one's living environment) as this may then see the angst itself below the surface.
Now, people will mention the awareness of instrumentality, and then go on to discuss how the notion of absurdity and embracing the charade is the mentality one needs to carry on. Sometimes that just does not do the trick. — schopenhauer1
This is open-ended, but my take on it, first: — David
I am suspicious that a large number of people who have thought about it enough (particularly the kinds of people that participate on forums like this one) arrive at a philosophical undoubtable that nothing matters and then go on to build philosophies which find ways around that, despite the fact that they know deep inside that really nothing matters, and they are just in a sort of denial because that kind of a view of the world is entirely unacceptable to us from an emotional standpoint. — David
I mean, these kinds of work-arounds (in my experience) are conjured up, with the goal of finding work-around. Then the thinkers conceive models of things that they (I should say we) claim matter, ultimately desirable end-goals, and they distract us for the rest of our lives because humans are pretty robotic and we can care immensely about the tasks we participate in, so we can stop thinking about the fact that nothing matters because we mark the issue solved by whatever "point of life" we come up with and seal the question off, occasionally failing and getting into an existential depression, but generally being able to go on with life. — David
5) In what context do you mean that nothing really matters? — Mayor of Simpleton
Happiness is always temporary, but that doesn't make it any less valuable. If anything, its temporary nature makes it more valuable. — Sapientia
Permanent happiness is impossible, so the alternative must either be to live an unhappy life or to die, neither of which are preferable, so why are you complaining? — Sapientia
Life cannot accurately be summed up as "coping" or "avoiding" or a "distraction" from "angst". — Sapientia
By being taught to sublimate and concentrate on various tasks-at-hand one is socialized to avoid feelings of angst or dread. One cannot have time or inclination to see our nature striving-at-nothing if one has something to concentrate on. All the better if the concentration embodies the socio-economic values of the embodied culture, as at least it will probably give one a good reputation- mine as well pursue that which provides status and good health if one is going to pursue anything (good worker, good family man, good performer, good athlete, healthy eater, healthy habits, etc.). — schopenhauer1
But, importantly, we are not powerless to think or act in a way which is conducive to living a life worth living, despite the downside, which you predictably emphasise and exaggerate because it suits your argument to do so. — Sapientia
That's not much of a consolation when someone is not happy. Good try though. — schopenhauer1
Actually, it was better never to have lived in the first place, but now that we are here, it is not bad to recognize the situation. — schopenhauer1
Those are false alternatives. — schopenhauer1
Rather, we will live and strive as we normally do, sometimes achieving a level of happiness, but with all the caveats I explained. This does make it better to have been, it just makes it that we can cope with reality, meaning we can make do. — schopenhauer1
How is it not? — schopenhauer1
There are constraints to our freedom imposed by the world and ourselves. — schopenhauer1
We have some freedom to choose, but the fact of our goal-seeking, dissatisfied nature should give some pause to simply saying "Look, I can choose goals and pursue them- yay!" — schopenhauer1
Besides, you are reworking my more nuanced argument effectively making it weaker (and basically making it a strawman). By dulling the force of the argument you can weaken it, and thus provide what "appears" to be a stronger reply. Here is what I actually said:
By being taught to sublimate and concentrate on various tasks-at-hand one is socialized to avoid feelings of angst or dread. One cannot have time or inclination to see our nature striving-at-nothing if one has something to concentrate on. All the better if the concentration embodies the socio-economic values of the embodied culture, as at least it will probably give one a good reputation- mine as well pursue that which provides status and good health if one is going to pursue anything (good worker, good family man, good performer, good athlete, healthy eater, healthy habits, etc.).
— schopenhauer1 — schopenhauer1
Why do you presume that happiness is temporary? I don't think it is. — ssu
It's only temporary to those that don't understand what happiness is. Or to those simply are sad or unhappy about their life, which usually makes them hate people who aren't equally sad and think that the happy ones are clueless, superficial and incapable of understanding the futility of life. — ssu
And things matter only to people and to living creatures. It's a question we have invented ourselves for ourselves. The vast amount of stuff that the universe is made of, things that aren't living, the question if something matters is an illogical question. — ssu
, I feel entitled to ask what or who it doesn't matter to? And there is no possible answer, because everything is on the other side of the relation....really nothing matters... — David
Enough is what you have and always will have if you never stop to check but just believe. (L)1) How much is "enough" and how do you know when it's"enough"? — Mayor of Simpleton
despite the fact that they know deep inside that really nothing matters — David
Don't try this at home, kids. Roadrunner is a trained professional, (and total fiction). — unenlightened
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