Is the desire to achieve more in life in the broadest context an organic process in nature, — Fumani
Is the desire to achieve more in life in the broadest context an organic process in nature, or is it an artificial construct that is forged by the mind?
How so? In the animal kingdom there is no clear indication that animals desire to achieve anything more than the equilibrium set by nature. — Fumani
Is the desire to achieve more in life in the broadest context an organic process in nature, or is it an artificial construct that is forged by the mind? — Fumani
To say we have free will to decide what we want is incorrect, we always operate on a template. — Fumani
For example if you want to start your own business but you recall that society at large has given you a template that you need money, and to get money you need a job, it will create resistance within you. We can oppose this template by starting our own business negating the prospect of getting a job, but we are still operating on the template of money. — Fumani
There are certain things we may be able to bypass but the fundamentals remain the same, our desires are intertwined with society, because even in opposing them and forming new ideologies or habits of our own, we cannot escape seeking a template that has already been created by a collection of other individuals. — Fumani
I have desires for many different things, and society tells me that to get these things, I need money, and so I transform my desire into a desire for money in order that I can get what I truly desire. — Metaphysician Undercover
So the template doesn't negate free will. It has to be chosen. And even after choosing a particular template, we can switch templates at any moment. Therefore we do not really operate on a template, as you suggested, because we are always choosing different templates right and left, as we see fit, and the templates are nothing more than tools which are at our disposal, if we so desire to use them — Metaphysician Undercover
You are making the assumption that your desires are separate from society at large. — Fumani
Free will by its own definition is the ability to choose any course of action. Now do you honestly think you decide the course of your actions when you already contain a template for which course of action is right or which course of action is wrong? — Fumani
You cannot choose a template without negating another, a choice implies that there is a selection of options that are available. Now you choose one and you make the proclamation that you chose it on your own accord but you merely chose it based on either your instinct (biochemistry in your body) or a new template that you are trying to adopt. — Fumani
Basically what I am saying Meta is that templates cannot be avoided, they are constructs that you operate under. Free will from your particular perspective is just the ability to move from one template to another, but every template that you can operate from is and was created by society, whether its supported by the majority or minority. The amount of people supporting that template matters not it can be a billion or just a hundred it doesn't change the fact that it is a template created by man and you are obligated to operate by one, your will is not free in that regard. — Fumani
Yes of course I am making that assumption. It appears blatantly obvious to me, that my personal desires are completely distinct from society as a whole. Do you not agree? I would not think that society is expressing its desires through me. My desires are intrinsically selfish, stemming from my own physical needs. But I may conform, to want what I think society wants from me. — Metaphysician Undercover
Why would choosing a template require negating another? Imagine having hundreds of templates laid out on the table, each with its own principle of application. Depending on my situation, I choose the one I think is best suited for my purpose. I don't negate the others, I leave them accessible to me for when I am in a different situation and require a different template. — Metaphysician Undercover
I agree that templates cannot be avoided, and that if I am to be a human being I will necessarily use them. But I do not agree with your logic which concludes that because we use templates we have no free will. There may be hundreds, thousands, or even millions of existing templates. We are able to dismantle them and create new ones out of combining parts from different ones. So the number of possible templates is countless. With that amount of freedom of choice, how do you conclude that the use of templates indicates that the will is not free? — Metaphysician Undercover
I mean exactly what you said that we have a whole array of templates to choose from, but even when we seem to choose a template that choice was inspired by a previous template. Your personal desires are rooted within the human condition, the desire for more resources, happiness and 'love' now how these desires express themselves is where the sense of individuality comes in. — Fumani
All choices overtly or covertly are negations most of the time, you chose to join this forum because the prospect of not joining did not entice you, I chose to respond to your comment because the prospect of not responding did not alure me. — Fumani
So from our own standpoint we are free to choose and desire what we will, but from a larger cultural standpoint what we will is constrained by the era and cultural environment in which we live. — Joshs
not the forces around you, the history of the way you construe the world is what constrains your present options. — Joshs
Yes that is what I mean by artificial, it is a construct, a mental formulation, in essence it holds no grounds in reality. So is the desire for more truly a natural experience or is it fabricated by and only utilized by the human condition? — Fumani
Cavacava I just want to redirect you to the question, "is the desire to achieve more in life an organic process?". Desire is fundamental yes, however the prospect of attaining more than what you have, now is that artificial or organic as well?
desire is forged by the society and its history where we are cast.
This is where I disagree with you. I think that my desires are rooted in my physical being, physical needs, instinct and such. not the templates which are offered to me by society. — Metaphysician Undercover
All choices overtly or covertly are negations most of the time — Fumani
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