Just bought $100 worth. I might get some ripple too. — Ian

Why Ripple over XRP?

No reason really. I ended up with about 10 different crypto products and mostly just bought very small amounts of the ones with the largest gain % in 2017. I'm not expecting much but it's fun. I feel like 2018 is gonna be big for all this. Have you purchased any?

No reason really. I ended up with about 10 different crypto products and mostly just bought very small amounts of the ones with the largest gain % in 2017. I'm not expecting much but it's fun. I feel like 2018 is gonna be big for all this. Have you purchased any? — Ian

>:O

Not into it, huh?

Not into it, huh? — Ian

Treat those who are good with goodness, and also treat those who are not good with goodness. Thus goodness is attained. Be honest to those who are honest, and be also honest to those who are not honest. Thus honesty is attained. — Tao Te Ching

Do you not believe me? I'm not sure what your trying to communicate with your last two posts.

Do you not believe me? I'm not sure what your trying to communicate with your last two posts. — Ian

I'm trying to communicate that you ought to be honest with me, and not try to pull my leg.

If you're referring to your strange question about ripple instead of xrp, I thought you were confused but I let it go. I did not end up with any ripple and nor did I say I did.

And you think I'm a fool - persistently?! That's not good and I don't like that. An apology and honesty would work better! This forum has guidelines for a reason, and they can always be implemented.

Lay out your case.

I ended up with about 10 different crypto products — Ian

@Ian How many different exchanges are you on? It seems that for each coin, you have to sign up on some obscure exchange that wants your ID and personal info. How do you manage the mechanics and also the security of dealing with many exchanges? Or did you find one exchange that has a lot of coins?

3 different exchanges and I had to give my brother money to be able to use his Bitcoin on 2 of them to buy those other alts. I didn't literally get the exact top 10 list of high performers but I did get at least 10 different coins and several from the list including litecoin and ethereum.

So yesterday my youngest Indian came into our home office and offered to both NicK and I to purchase part of the Ethereum coin he holds and of course I jumped at the chance and am just giddy about it. So we paid him $240.00 in a regular bank transfer and began to watch the GDAX board and it was $995.00 when the money transferred hands. Since I have been watching it I am excited about the movement!!!



It's too hard to see but it is up to $1070.00 this morning. (Y)

because there are some smart basts on here and now, out there, pretty much anyone can be a 'trader'.

Two days later it is up to $1,216.94 !!!!!!
I wanted to take out my original investment but NicK is saying let it ride...

My profits are down from a few days ago, but I've still more than doubled what I put in, so there's that.

My profits are down from a few days ago, but I've still more than doubled what I put in, so there's that. — Michael

Hell yeah there is that! I am so excited about this new form of currency, a new form of anything to bring our world closer and every one's value is the same.

NicK was telling me about the Myans using sticks with notches in it for currency so how far out could block chain currency be?

Ps. I realize that this will come as a shock but I really do wish we as a world could all be one happy family~ sheps said I have a Utopian view on life and a romantic view on fire arms. Where is that sheps anyway?

My profits are down from a few days ago, but I've still more than doubled what I put in, so there's that. — Michael

I thought one has profits only when one cashes out, sells the investment and makes in this case capital gains.

Seems like speculation has gotten to PF members.

Telling.

I still thinks this is a bubble, but enjoy the ride!!!

I thought one has profits only when one cashes out, sells the investment and makes in this case capital gains. — ssu

Is it any different to owning shares (or really anything that isn't cold hard cash)?

Is it any different to owning shares (or really anything that isn't cold hard cash)? — Michael

From a trading perspective not so much. An obvious difference though is that share prices try to reflect the value of the company where it's usually clear that labour adds value. It is not clear what the value 1 Bitcoin = 12.000 USD reflects. A cryptocurrency price point appears to me as a pure supply and demand equillibrium without any relationship to economic activity at this point. Even for currency exchange rates, you'll see the underlying real economy of the different countries play an important role in setting those rates next to supply and demand.

Actually, upon reflection, that's me thinking as an outstanding model citizen. Bitcoin price could be reflecting, next to the speculation, supply & demand and herd mentality, the size of the black market economy.

From a trading perspective not so much. An obvious difference though is that share prices try to reflect the value of the company where it's usually clear that labour adds value. It is not clear what the value 1 Bitcoin = 12.000 USD reflects. A cryptocurrency price point appears to me as a pure supply and demand equillibrium without any relationship to economic activity at this point. Even for currency exchange rates, you'll see the underlying real economy of the different countries play an important role in setting those rates next to supply and demand. — Benkei

What I meant is that if owning X amount of some cryptocurrency which can be sold for £100 doesn't count as having £100, then surely owning X amount of some company's shares (or even something like land) which can be sold for £100 doesn't count as having £100. I can't use either to pay my rent or buy food (which I assume is the sort of thing @ssu was referring to).

What I meant is that if owning X amount of some cryptocurrency which can be sold for £100 doesn't count as having £100, then surely owning X amount of some company's shares (or even something like land) which can be sold for £100 doesn't count as having £100. I can't use either to pay my rent or buy food (which I assume is the sort of thing ssu was referring to). — Michael

Yes, I meant to agree with that with my first sentence.

Oh, sorry, totally misunderstand what you said. I've barely slept in 3 days.

What I meant is that if owning X amount of some cryptocurrency which can be sold for £100 doesn't count as having £100, then surely owning X amount of some company's shares (or even something like land) which can be sold for £100 doesn't count as having £100. — Michael

My profits are down from a few days ago, but I've still more than doubled what I put in, so there's that. — Michael

ssu is correct. You cannot count as profit transactions which are not yet complete. Even as a business, I may have a $1 million contract, that doesn't count as revenue (and profit) until the dough actually is transferred into my bank account.

The reason why having a 50% increase in BTC or the like don't count as profits is because the transaction isn't finished - you haven't cashed out. In fact, you may be unable to cash out for whatever reason - exchange doesn't work, your Bitcoins get stolen, there's not enough liquidity to cash out your entire position, etc. So, for example, the Bitcoin founder has 1 million Bitcoins. Their value is around 14 billion USD. You reckon he should count that as profit? Of course not, because he cannot cash out such a large position - there's not enough volume to support it.

ssu is correct. You cannot count as profit transactions which are not yet complete. Even as a business, I may have a $1 million contract, that doesn't count as revenue (and profit) until the dough actually is transferred into my bank account.

The reason why having a 50% increase in BTC or the like don't count as profits is because the transaction isn't finished - you haven't cashed out. In fact, you may be unable to cash out for whatever reason - exchange doesn't work, your Bitcoins get stolen, there's not enough liquidity to cash out your entire position, etc. So, for example, the Bitcoin founder has 1 million Bitcoins. Their value is around 14 billion USD. You reckon he should count that as profit? Of course not, because he cannot cash out such a large position - there's not enough volume to support it. — Agustino

So I can't count it as profit, but I can count it towards my wealth? That's just splitting hairs. I was worth £X before I bought, I'm now worth £X + £Y.

So I can't count it as profit, but I can count it towards my wealth? — Michael

Yes, assets you own do count towards your net worth.

I was worth £X before I bought, I'm now worth £X + £Y. — Michael

Yes, your net worth is now X+Y. But that doesn't mean you've made a profit. Just that for one reason or another, the market value of the assets you own has increased.

Also, please don't forget that net worth is not the same as wealth. Someone can have a very high net worth and still be poor. Financial liquidity (and cash flow) are a much more important measure of wealth. Say you have no cash, but you own a house worth $30 million. You can't buy that Bugatti Veyron since you have no cash. Getting a loan of that size, or selling the house, will take quite a bit of time (probably more than 1 month) - so can you say that you are wealthy if you can't act as soon as you want? You won't even be able to buy yourself food with no cash flow or liquidity.

So I can't count it as profit, but I can count it towards my wealth? That's just splitting hairs. I was worth £X before I bought, I'm now worth £X + £Y. — Michael

Companies are expected to mark-to-market any financial instruments they hold. You can only do that if the market is sufficiently liquid, otherwise you'd mark-to-model. You have an unrealised profit. Once you sell, it becomes realised profit.

It's an important difference because if I want to value a company, I'm not interested in the cost price of financial instruments (e.g. what the company paid for it) so it's important to take into account the actual market value. At the same time, it is also clear that unrealised profit is "locked up"; it can't be paid out as dividends or used to invest or buy something else.

Is it any different to owning shares (or really anything that isn't cold hard cash)? — Michael

From a trading perspective not so much. An obvious difference though is that share prices try to reflect the value of the company where it's usually clear that labour adds value. It is not clear what the value 1 Bitcoin = 12.000 USD reflects. A cryptocurrency price point appears to me as a pure supply and demand equillibrium without any relationship to economic activity at this point. Even for currency exchange rates, you'll see the underlying real economy of the different countries play an important role in setting those rates next to supply and demand. — Benkei

Actually, owning shares is very different.

You are then an owner of a company. Companies usually pay dividend, hence typically shares provide an income stream, a return to investment. To own cash/currency/gold etc. for the intention to make a profit (by selling them later at a higher price) is simply speculation.

You cannot count as profit transactions which are not yet complete. Even as a business, I may have a $1 million contract, that doesn't count as revenue (and profit) until the dough actually is transferred into my bank account. — Agustino

Yep. And individuals don't have to mark-to-market their wealth. Corporations can have this sometimes ugly feature to do, that is that if their stock holdings take a dive, they have to report a loss (or vice versa) even if they don't sell.

This feature was one important factor in the financial crisis. Once the mark-to-market accounting standards were eased, the stock market bounced back.