Provocative. But meaningful? — tim wood
What is a "tendency"? What does it mean to say that "everything has a tendency to reach an end"? What is an "end"? — tim wood
Are perfection and end the same, in different words? — tim wood
Or are they different? — tim wood
What is the difference? — tim wood
What is motion, in your usage? — tim wood
Who judges what is imperfect? — tim wood
If imperfection exists and God didn't create it, then where did it come from? — tim wood
And, finally, what do you mean by God? — tim wood
Philosophy, if that is what you're about, is not about being clever. It is about being - trying to be - thoughtful, and engaging others in thoughtful discussion — tim wood
Why does the lack of something need to be created? — Lone Wolf
Imperfection means lack of perfection. If an artist creates a sketch, and then another person comes and erases part of it, did the artist create an imperfect sketch? — Lone Wolf
No, I meant what I said. Imperfection is lack of perfection, hence it cannot be created.The main question is why something imperfect should be created or how something imperfect could be created? Is that what you want to ask? — bahman
Perfection must mean to be complete, as even you stated:Probably. You need a perfect artist to judge this situation. — bahman
There cannot be room for improvements, as improvements would require effort, movement, to change. With the example of the artist, we can only view it with our imperfect human abilities; meaning our ability to detect complete perfection cannot be possible. So, if the sketch was complete, while no improvements could be made, as far as humanly possible, then it would be so to say "perfect". Now, if you or I came across this sketch with an eraser, and erased part of it, the sketch becomes imperfect. The artist did not erase this, and hence he or she did not create an imperfect sketch; you or I caused it to be imperfect, or incomplete, and now it needs improvements and changes.Perfection is the end. Therefore there is no motion in perfection. — bahman
(1) A stone which is rolling down a hill. Tendency means that it is under a force to move in a given direction. The end is the bottom of hill, (2) A person who is looking to reach to a purpose or fulfill a feeling. Tendency is clear in this case clear. The end is the purpose or state of pleasure due to fulfilling a feeling. (3) The capacity that material turns into intellectual beings. — bahman
Nice point! Have you thought it through? Our world is governed by time and change. That means that whatever perfection, in whatever degree, in whatever circumstance, realized by anything at all, must pass away into imperfection.There is a difference. You cannot go further than the end but you can go further than an end. Perfection is the end. — bahman
I buy this. Everything is in motion, at some level and in some sense, even if just the vibrations of the atoms in a bar of iron. But what does this say about perfection? If perfection is an end, "no further or lower allowed..., no motion" then perfection in the thing itself is fleeting, to the point of non-existence. All that's left is the idea of a thing, and the person who holds the idea. And it would seem that ideas must be approximations. The idea of this here bar of iron remains static, even as the thing itself is continuously changing.What is motion, in your usage?
— tim wood
Change in a stuff, matter for example. — bahman
And, finally, what do you mean by God?
— tim wood
The creator. The one who is perfect. — bahman
After some thought, and subject to correction, I do not (even) think you can say anything about the status of the perfection - even that it was perfect. The problem lies in the fact of judgment, and the qualifications of the judge. Perfect-for-me is certainly not the same thing as simply perfect. — tim wood
I buy this. Everything is in motion, at some level and in some sense, even if just the vibrations of the atoms in a bar of iron. But what does this say about perfection? If perfection is an end, "no further or lower allowed..., no motion" then perfection in the thing itself is fleeting, to the point of non-existence. All that's left is the idea of a thing, and the person who holds the idea. And it would seem that ideas must be approximations. The idea of this here bar of iron remains static, even as the thing itself is continuously changing. — tim wood
Well, if God is the creator, and is the one who is perfect, then do you see any problems with the rest of our topic? — tim wood
In particular, you posit imperfection, which is inconsistent with your idea of God. — tim wood
What are you going to give up? — tim wood
What is "God?" I mean... do we really have an answer to this? The creative force?How could God create imperfection? — bahman
I don't doubt man had to write the biblical book of "God" but I think we need to question why the bible actually came into being.You are taking a view of god through the BOOK "of god"; but this is a human creation.. — charleton
This is a great point... but are you talking macro, micro or both? I think the term "biodynamics" became popular with Rudolf Steiner.You need to open thebook of nature to really see what is going on. — charleton
You need to open the book of nature to really see what is going on.
— charleton
This is a great point... but are you talking macro, micro or both? I think the term "biodynamics" became popular with Rudolf Steiner. — Jon
I really think this a naive view. The Bible is much to deep to be contrasted with goat herders and myth.Either take the word of a bunch of half illiterate post neolithic goat herders and their myths, or look at the world as we know it. The book came about because people wrote down the myths of their culture — charleton
I'm talking about the universe, not the activities of a few smart monkeys. — charleton
Well.. if you look at the first two chapters you'll see discussion on creation. What do you think of that? — Jon
The problem of evil is what you're asking after. And anyone who says they've figured it out is wrong. — Buxtebuddha
What is "God?" I mean... do we really have an answer to this? The creative force? — Jon
If "God" brought everything into being maybe the reason for creation was akin to "separating the wheat from the chaff?" So creation, in and of itself, is an evolutionary act. — Jon
One thing that seems apparent to me is that creation affords me the ability to see. — Jon
No law imposes rationality, especially in matters that touch theology; so go in peace. For us who care about rationality it leaves the question, why are you posting here if your mind is set? It's apparently not for the fruits of discussion - were you looking for approval and applause? — tim wood
If you are asking is there a god, then ask that!
Otherwise you seem to have your question backwards. You cannot understand the universe by imposing a predefined view of god upon it; You have to understand god through your understanding of god's creation.
The argument goes; The universe is...... therefore the creator is .....
You are taking a view of god through the BOOK "of god"; but this is a human creation.
You need to open the book of nature to really see what is going on. — charleton
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