If anybody has a suggestion for a BRIEF discussion of POMO's history, please post it. — Bitter Crank
It was an irony, since behind "reproductive rights" hides oppression of the weak and downtrodden, who cannot speak (literarily all aborted babies). Seems like you're not very good with figures of speech.Since when do newborn babies lack the right to life? — Maw
For the most part, since you didn't address the substance of the video. You tell me identity politics is not recent. Peterson didn't claim it is. Neither did I for that matter. Then you proceed to go on a tirade that is besides the point and illustrates that you haven't watched even half of the video.And is that really all you have to say? — Maw
This is just finger-pointing, you don't explain how Breitbart, Fox, etc. are identity politics.1) identity politics also a right-wing strategy too, from the Southern Strategy to Breitbart and Fox News, and in fact, many forms of left-wing identity movements are formed because of right-wing opposition — Maw
The point isn't whether politics is reducible to identity or not. The point is that some of them, like Hillary Clinton, campaigned on the fact that she's a woman, Obama campaigned on the fact that he's black, etc. What the hell is "breaking the glass ceiling" huh? Isn't that effectively telling a segment of the population "you will be able to do whatsoever you want if I'm President, so vote for me", thus trying to bank on greed, self-interest and divisiveness to get elected?2) "The Left" is not in uniformed agreement on the importance or focus on identity politics. Notable democratic politicians, for example, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Hilary Clinton, Barack Obama, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, etc. clearly don't consider politics to be reducible to identity. — Maw
Yeah, only that I was saying all this for quite a few years already, seems like you haven't been reading what I was saying on PF. As for Peterson's self-help - well, some of it I found helpful. You should try it, it might bring good results in your life. If it doesn't, then just don't use it.Circular and laughably naive, no wonder you readily subscribe to Peterson's vapid "self-help" philosophy. — Maw
It is flawed, and racist. The concept of white privilege itself is an unfair generalization of a certain group based on the color of their skin.From what little I've seen of Jordan Peterson, I don't object to much of what he says. But I think the phrase 'the lie of white privilege' is silly.
White privilege is simply not having to wonder whether a stranger will suddenly start to abuse you on the bus, just because of what you look like. In the US it is also not having to fear a police officer every time one comes near, that they may stop and search you, or even shoot you, because of what you look like. One would have to live under a rock to think that such a privilege does not exist.
Where claims about white privilege become silly is when they start to imply that ALL white people are better off than ALL non-whites, and there do seem to be plenty of extremists that say or imply such things. But the fact that the notion of white privilege may be misused by silly people does not imply that the notion itself is flawed. — andrewk
PS It doesn't help his case at all that the lectern he's at has a big sign saying 'TRUMP Hotels'. It's not his fault, just bad luck, but it reduces his chances of changing anybody's mind to just about zero. — andrewk
Oh dear, what's wrong with the TRUMP brand now?I had the same distraction factor of seeing the TRUMP brand. — Bitter Crank
I thought the setting looked quite nice and fancy, though I don't know the place.Plus the fake decor behind the lecture. — Bitter Crank
I thought the setting looked quite nice and fancy, though I don't know the place. — Agustino
Oh dear, what's wrong with the TRUMP brand now? — Agustino
I guess this would go in another thread, but why is it off-putting if it's fake? The point of the decoration is to look nice, not to be original, no? I guess it would need to match with the rest of the hotel, but then I don't know how that looks.Oh dear... So now we know what your mansion will look like.
The fake decoration wasn't hideous, certainly, but it was the wrong fake decoration for the space. A modern hotel conference room isn't entitled to (possible, but probably not) marble statuary (too white, bright for one thing), books that look leather bound (either fake or bought by the ton by interior decoration supply companies) and fako 18th-19th century woodwork. There were too many other signals that this was merely a conference room in a hotel -- the chairs, lighting, walls, paint, etc. — Bitter Crank
So, what about that makes it disturbing? If he wasn't POTUS, would that not be disturbing?It's just that the eponymous developer of the brand happens to be POTUS, and as such is disturbing in ever so many ways. — Bitter Crank
If he wasn't POTUS, would that not be disturbing? — Agustino
>:O - well, I personally think having Trump as President is infinitely better than having Hillary as President. The difference is between having visible problems, and having invisible problems. The latter is worse.No. Then God would be in his heaven where he belongs and all would be right with the world, sort of. — Bitter Crank
I never understood why some people think this way, to me it just seems some uncalled for snob-ism. If it looks nice, it looks nice, who really cares whether the carpet is "authentic" or not? Like what difference does it make, if it looks the same? I may be an uncultured barbarian, but this seems self-evident to me.Paul Fussell wrote a book a few decades back, Class: A Guide Through the American Status System, that explains all this. There are certain features of the would-be old-money upper class look. even though one is, like yourself. a nouvelle arrivee. For instance, the wood floor should be dark wood -- as if it had been walked on for at least 200 years. There are products available to achieve the desired darkness.
One should buy real oriental rugs of course, made by suffering children under horrible working conditions, but they need to be old oriental rugs, slightly threadbare. After all, they were bought when Wilson was president. And so on. — Bitter Crank
So if a white man leverages his identity to connect with and inspire people of his own skin color and gender in order to get voted into office, can you imagine what the left would say? Oh, Neo-nazi! White Supremacist! Patriarchy! Oh dear...Yes, Hilary Clinton is a woman, and Barack Obama is a black American, and both leveraged their identities to connect and inspire a group of voters. Never did they claim that those groups could "do anything" once they were elected. Never did they use divisively racial or sexist language when speaking to different population segments. It is not racist or sexist to connect with people of your own skin color or gender. It does dissolve our "social unity". To claim otherwise is a mixture of stupidity and ignorance. — Maw
No, I don't like double standards. If the black lesbian woman is allowed to rightfully connect with and appeal to people like her, so should the white, straight man be allowed to appeal to people like him. That's real equality.Are you incapable of seeing the asymmetry of power, both historical and modern, of women and blacks between white males in America? — Maw
Right, America has also still never had a Chinese president. Should that worry us?For fuck's sake, America has still never had a woman president — Maw
if a white man leverages his identity to connect with people of his own skin color and gender in order to get voted into office, can you imagine what the left would say? Oh, Neo-nazi! White Supremacist! Patriarchy! — Agustino
I agree, I did not say that being a white male and appealing to other white males is the same as being a Nazi.There is a difference between being a white male, and putting that status forward in terms of blood, virility, fatherland, and all that. — Bitter Crank
Personally, I think that the way BO tried to implement his healthcare reform in the US was wrong, and also his approach to the economy, including the bailouts, were very wrong. In many regards, he was a career politician, who did what the establishment wanted of him, and now he opened a foundation (to receive some more money that is still owed to him) and things will go on from there. He's living the basic, traditional life of someone successful.Barack Obama's single greatest liability was that he was a successful black man, something that conservatives found terminally irksome. The conservatives probably would have liked him better if he used poor grammar, mumbled, and had a couple of drug convictions and a robbery or two on his record. That he was a lawyer, college professor, crisp English speaker, cool calm and collected, crime record free, and more cultured than them was just... intolerable. — Bitter Crank
Well yeah, but that's a different thing from what I was describing. I was just making a point that the left does not want to acknowledge that there are reasonable ways to appeal to voters who have the same identity as you (for example white male), without being a white supremacist, neo-nazi, etc.The white supremacists, on the other hand, explicitly put forward their race, gender, heterosexuality, uncircumcised dick, and so forth, against blacks, gays, Jews, and whoever is on their list of unwanted. They don't attempt to appeal to a broad spectrum of society -- anything but. — Bitter Crank
I don't know, I don't think I'd like many of those things or be interested in them tbh. I don't like spending non-work related time around or talking to rich people.Uncultured barbarians who have the means generally want entre to the class with matching amounts of money. The Cultured barbarians who got there first generally want to fence in their estates to keep new money out. Yes, it is snobbism, of course. This is an old problem for new money. As you become a wildly successful uncultured barbarian, rolling in cash from your various entrepreneurial activities, you will want to join the cocktail party / dinner party / dance party / board room circuit along with the other successful people. — Bitter Crank
Well, my whole life I have fought against hypocrisy & convention, it would really be a shame to become one myself.How do you do that? You probably don't have a pedigree which would win you admission (no recent tzars, dukes, or earls in your family tree). Being white isn't privilege enough. Academic degrees definitely won't cut it. What you will do is fake a background. There are standardized methods of doing this. You live in the right kind of mansion, wear the right kind of clothes, go to the right church, give generously to the right charities, volunteer your services on the right committees, and in 30 years you might be accepted, grudgingly. Then your sons and daughters will reap the reward. They will be accepted as scions of money old enough not to still stink.
And per George Bernard Shaw, you also talk the right way. Very important to get the accent and idiom down cold.
Agustino Jr. can then marry the daughter (or son, if they turns out gay) of the leading family. It's a long range project. Good luck. — Bitter Crank
But, unlike with regards to Bush, I don't have a lot of negative things to say about Obama, precisely because he was a career politician who stuck to the party line. What can I say? He did what Presidents usually do. That's it. The problem, of course, is that it's rare to have a good President.Barack Obama — Bitter Crank
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