• bahman
    526
    The only certainty that we have is that experience exists. Therefore we cannot prove the existence of any being at all. This means that there is a gap in all ontological arguments.
  • tim wood
    9.3k
    The only certainty that we have is that experience exists. Therefore we cannot prove the existence of any being at all. This means that there is a gap in all ontological arguments.bahman

    1) What do you say that an ontological argument is? What do you say ontological means?

    2) What, exactly, does "certainty" mean in your usage? I ask because experience is of something: if the experience is certain, isn't that which is experienced also certain? Are there differing senses of the word "certain" wherein some certain things are less certain than others?

    The only "ontological" argument I can think of is St. Anselm's so-called proof, so named by Kant about 700(!) years later. But it's not a proof, and "being" is an empty predicate.

    The argument is made that Anselm's real point is that a belief in God is a presupposition of certain kinds of thinking, which the fool forgets. On this, St. Anselm's "proof" works.
  • Rich
    3.2k
    The only certainty that we have is that experience existsbahman

    Not that experience exists (as if it floating in some sort of vacuum) but rather we (our minds) are experiencing. It is one and the same - mind and memory.
  • Wayfarer
    22.4k
    All philosophical arguments, no matter how deep or complex, can be expressed in a sentence or two. This is the internet.
  • Caldwell
    1.3k
    The only certainty that we have is that experience exists. Therefore we cannot prove the existence of any being at all. This means that there is a gap in all ontological arguments.bahman

    Reading this gives me stomach ache.
  • WISDOMfromPO-MO
    753
    The only certainty that we have is that experience exists.bahman

    Are you certain of that?

    If your answer is yes, then that makes two certainties.
  • Rich
    3.2k
    The only certainty that we have is that experience exists.
    — bahman

    Are you certain of that?

    If your answer is yes, then that makes two certainties.
    WISDOMfromPO-MO

    I would state it otherwise. I would say that experiences (memories) is what defines us.
  • bahman
    526
    1) What do you say that an ontological argument is? What do you say ontological means?tim wood

    By ontological argument I mean the argument that prove the existence of God from the premise that God can be conceived.

    2) What, exactly, does "certainty" mean in your usage? I ask because experience is of something: if the experience is certain, isn't that which is experienced also certain? Are there differing senses of the word "certain" wherein some certain things are less certain than others?tim wood

    To me what we conceive is a part of our experience. There is however a gap between what we experience and what exists in the world, object of experience. We cannot prove that the object of experience exists. The same applies to ontological argument.
  • bahman
    526
    Are you certain of that?WISDOMfromPO-MO

    Yes. We experience, that is one interpretation.

    If your answer is yes, then that makes two certainties.WISDOMfromPO-MO

    Yes, but that is all.
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