Here's another perspective. Many 16-19 year old girls like to have sex. Who's to say that the experience these girls had with your brother wasn't overwhelmingly a positive one. Have you spoken to any of them or have any reason to believe that your brothers actions have caused them harm? — Perplexed
If not isn't it somewhat condescending for you to assume that they don't have minds of their own or can make decisions for themselves. — Perplexed
Its not the existence of an age of consent I object to, its the cultural influence over what that age actually is. We cannot keep denying a young adult's right to choose what to do with their own body on the basis of some cultural notion of development with no objective basis. — Pseudonym
Yes, we can deny a young adult's right to choose what to do with their own body until they, alone, are capable of handling the consequences of their actions both foreseen and unforeseen. — ArguingWAristotleTiff
Well I am, what makes you think I'm not? — Pseudonym
I've got the impression that in this thread no proper distinction has been made or maintained among rights, abilities, and capabilities. — tim wood
Do you practice what you preach? — tim wood
Or as a parent do you routinely usurp your children's "rights" when you think it best to do so? — tim wood
Do children that are underage for something have any rights in that area? For example, what rights does a 12 year old have about alcohol?
What abilities would a 14 year old need for sex?
What capabilities does a 13 year old need to be allowed to drive a car? — Sir2u
was (e.g.) a mediocre student when I could have been exceptional, a slightly better than average athlete when I could have been much better, etc. If I had someone behind me pushing me I think the trajectory of my life may have been much different, probably even much better. — Erik
My boy had his first knife when he was 4, he's now quite an accomplished carver and makes most of his own toys, but I wouldn't give a knife to most 16 year olds I meet, because they weren't given one when young, they just don't know how to handle it. — Pseudonym
In hunter-gatherer societies children are given complete freedom, they are free to play with knives, poisons, fire, deep rivers, wild animals etc. What they learn from this is that they have to decide for themselves what is dangerous and what is not, they have to learn how to spot danger and avoid it. In the really deadly scenarios, and adult is always close by to step in, but other than that, they are allowed to make their own mistakes and learn from them. The result is some of the most psychologically well-adjusted young adults in the world — Pseudonym
Never? — tim wood
But my guess is that you didn't give him a skill saw at age 4. — Tree Falls
The brain's risk assessment capacity doesn't seem to fully develop until the mid-20s. — Tree Falls
I'd truly be interested in any evidence that you have to support that last sentence. If it is true, I wonder how causality is determined. l'd like to see comparisons to other small, inclusive communities such as the Amish. — Tree Falls
Kids aren't stupid. — Pseudonym
In some ways think I kind of fall into the category you mentioned regarding those who have to figure things out for themselves, but unfortunately it took me a long time to do so and in the process I was (e.g.) a mediocre student when I could have been exceptional, a slightly better than average athlete when I could have been much better, etc. If I had someone behind me pushing me I think the trajectory of my life may have been much different, probably even much better.
Not that I completely regret the path I've taken, but I did make some poor choices that I look back on with a sense of utter disbelief. Who was that young man who did those dumb things? Yeah, that was me. I see the person I've turned out to be, I compare that with my youthful self, and the contrast is pretty extreme. Frightening even if I'm being honest. — Erik
Ignorant, but not stupid. — tim wood
I'd truly be interested in any evidence that you have to support that last sentence. If it is true, I wonder how causality is determined. l'd like to see comparisons to other small, inclusive communities such as the Amish. — Tree Falls
What I've personally found to be really important is setting a good example and providing a positive environment. Given those two things, kids tend to make the right choices. — Pseudonym
With regards to your 'bad' choices, a lot of what this thread has been about is the ability (right, I would say) for kids to make some poor choices and see how they turn out, they've got to stand on their own two feet someday and the ability to know a good choice from a bad one doesn't magically arrive at 16,18 or whenever. I wouldn't presume to comment on your own experience, but I suspect you learned some important lessons from those early choices and I doubt you would have the motivation to be who you are now without having discovered for yourself what happens. — Pseudonym
It's refreshing to hear someone else thinking there's more to an upbringing than acquiring knowledge. Children actually have a 'right' to an education under the UDHR, they do not have a right to play time. Does that sound right to you? — Pseudonym
I agree that some kids need more guidance than others, but I really can't see any justification for this constant need society seems to have to insist it knows best to such an extent as to actually ban them from certain activities and make others mandatory. Even so much as a cursory glance at the adult world will tell anyone that what modern culture thinks is best for everyone, most assuredly is not. — Pseudonym
Could you explain this a bit further? I'm not sure what UDHR stands for — Erik
it's been one of my pet projects to try to articulate a position which aligns a form of cultural conservatism (anti-consumerist, pro-environmental, artistically-inclined, pro-family and community, etc.) with a progressive social and economic agenda. I think there are possible areas of overlap worth exploring that could eventually lead to a significant grassroots movement, although this would likely be way down the line. — Erik
I'm open to any suggestions on books, articles, etc. that you think I may benefit from. — Erik
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