Good observation. I do, and it does. I did have some really rewarding, good job experiences, but I didn't know how to make more of them happen. — Bitter Crank

Here's my analysis, as I'm still feeling insightful:

For someone who wants to be himself above all else, employment will be an oppressive, depressing, and anxiety filled journey. An intellectual response (albeit it impractical) would be to reject the entire enterprise and to demand the right to extensive personal liberty within the work context. The practical response would be entrepreneurship. Self-employment for a personal cause, that's where Hanover the high school guidance counselor would have directed you.

Prostitution... His father was an alcoholic, so go figure. You'll think I'm loony but the Russian mob was involved in all this. My mother attests to this.

At one point (about 6th grade) I had an entrepreneurial impulse: I was going to raise mushrooms. In 5th grade I developed a fascination with fungi which has endured; I still enjoy finding the odd fungus; a few years ago I came across a bright cadmium yellow wood shelf fungi. I passed it every day, so watched it fade to the more typical gray-brown shelf. It was really beautiful when it first appeared.

Needless to say, there are numerous reasons why mushroom farming would not have worked out well.

More good insight. Unfortunately, you might not have been born yet when I most needed your helpful guidance counseling. We all got about zero guidance counseling in school.

Yes, entrepreneurship in social causes would have been the ticket had I enough brains at the time to realize that. And the three jobs I really liked (tutoring college students, AIDS prevention, and smoking cessation classes) were all more or less entrepreneurial in nature. I was great at getting programs launched. The guy who was the first director of the AIDS Project where I worked for 7 years was similar -- a great program starter, not so hot as a program administrator. 7 years was about as long as I could stand even the good jobs.

My main problem, Hanover, was that I was an idiot when it came to figuring out how to get along in the world in a productive and happy way. Plus I had a lot of other crap to figure out, like extricating myself from a religious milieu that was increasingly unsatisfactory.

Did I mention how much gaslighting was involved in all this? The gaslighting was immense.

I feel as though I have said enough. Wallows some more.

Prostitution... His father was an alcoholic, so go figure. You'll think I'm loony but the Russian mob was involved in all this. My mother attests to this. — Posty McPostface

My guess is that some form of corruption is involved in everything Russian, and it's never clear who is the mob, the government, and an ordinary citizen.

You're telling me that your father found comfort in prostitutes and that was his demise? I suppose that could be, knowing little of Russian culture, but I still smell alcohol in this story.

At one point (about 6th grade) I had an entrepreneurial impulse: I was going to raise mushrooms. — Bitter Crank

You must pick them from the cow manure. There is value in those.

Did I mention how much gaslighting was involved in all this? The gaslighting was immense.

I feel as though I have said enough. Wallows some more. — Posty McPostface

And now a teaser designed to solicit additional facts.

You're telling me that your father found comfort in prostitutes and that was his demise? I suppose that could be, knowing little of Russian culture, but I still smell alcohol in this story. — Hanover

Yes, and whatever else being around prostitutes entails. Keep in mind that as a dentist there's easy access to a lot of opioid-based pain medication (which I won't rule out). My father is too smart to indulge in alcohol, and combined with his own father's indulgence in that substance and the plethora of abuse from what I heard happened due to this, then there isn't much in terms of psychological comfort to be had from said substance from his perspective.

And now a teaser designed to solicit additional facts. — Hanover

Just plenty of psychological abuse based on calling my mother schizophrenic, bipolar, nervous, anxious, bla bla bla. You get the point. Somehow, I ended up, by association, with a similar attitude to my problems.

Me: Dad, why?
Dad: Your schizophrenic, so keep quiet.

entrepreneurship — Hanover

I actually think BC, as he is now at least, would have made a good entrepreneur. He seems quite clear-headed, and also quite thorough & methodical when discussing a particular subject. He also seems to have good social skills, though maybe a little too ideologically motivated, at least for certain kinds of entrepreneurship. But that's the impression I get solely from what I've seen of him on PF.

Well, to be honest, that is quite common for Eastern European parents to answer to their children. My parents were the same back when I suffered of mental health issues - it's just the attitude Eastern Europeans have towards mental health, they tend to view it as if the person who is suffering from it is inferior.

Yes, there's the mentality over there to view people as symptoms or in stronger cases pathologic problems, and not view them as humans. I don't know how or why (given that Eastern European countries produce some of the best doctors and medical professionals, the education there is really up there, as I tried studying medicine myself during my stay there) this sentiment emerged; but, it's a devastating way to view a child let alone a person, as a human being.

Yes, there's the mentality over there to view people as symptoms or in stronger cases pathologic problems, and not view them as humans. I don't know how or why (given that Eastern European countries produce some of the best doctors and medical professionals, the education there is really up there, as I tried studying medicine myself during my stay there) this sentiment emerged; but, it's a devastating way to view a child let alone a person, as a human being. — Posty McPostface

Sure. Here in Eastern Europe mental illness is something to be ashamed of, something you should keep as hidden as possible, because it can be used against you. If people hear it, they look at you differently. But, sometimes that can also be a good thing, because it stops you from wasting your time with the wrong people.

I don't know how or why (given that Eastern European countries produce some of the best doctors and medical professionals, the education there is really up there, as I tried studying medicine myself during my stay there) — Posty McPostface

Hmmm - I wouldn't put it like that, because even our doctors look down upon the mentally ill. It's a cultural attitude, and I think the cultural attitude prevails over the science. The "science" of mental illness is also a bit of a large word - I don't think we really have a science.

But, to be honest, once you accept to be humiliated, and once you stop caring about the appearances - it doesn't matter to you anymore what others think. What others think can neither hurt you nor benefit you. That old grandfather who buys second-hand shirts and travels economy class dressed like a hobo may just happen to be the billionaire owner of Ikea :rofl:

Actually composted and sterilized horse manure was the preferred medium. Why sterilized? Growers want only the specific variety of mushroom inoculated - NO volunteers, any one of which could be poisonous.

A bona fide case of coming from rags to riches. — Posty McPostface

Basically, my father figure self-destructed when he was no longer under any pressure. — Posty McPostface

Prostitution... — Posty McPostface

Well, sounds like your father had a very hard life and worked very hard. So who can really blame such a man - you know, at some point you get tired of all the days working from morning to night - I'm speculating but maybe he just wanted to enjoy the prostitutes and these things that he didn't have access to when he was young, no? I mean when you work super hard like that, at some point the stress certainly gets to you. I imagine that at some point the desire to enjoy those things that you foregone when you were young certainly comes up.

Well, sounds like your father had a very hard life and worked very hard. So who can really blame such a man - you know, at some point you get tired of all the days working from morning to night - I'm speculating but maybe he just wanted to enjoy the prostitutes and these things that he didn't have access to when he was young, no? I mean when you work super hard like that, at some point the stress certainly gets to you. I imagine that at some point the desire to enjoy those things that you foregone when you were young certainly comes up. — Agustino

The man is a difficult case to analyze from my perspective, as I'm obviously biased. I grew up with the image of a hard-working person who suffered arrhythmia from his job and cared for us. Then you move to another part of the world, where he was from, and you see (or in my case didn't see, as he was in the "library" all the time) a completely different type of behaviour. I'm befuddled.

To put it more plainly, he was an excellent actor hiding something from everyone to see. What that this is or was is a mystery and will remain a mystery to me.

Ok, enough ruminating for one day...

Thanks!

I grew up with the image of a hard-working person who suffered arrhythmia from his job and cared for us. Then you move to another part of the world, where he was from, and you see (or in my case didn't see, as he was in the "library" all the time) a completely different type of behaviour. I'm befuddled.

To put it more plainly, he was an excellent actor hiding something from everyone to see. — Posty McPostface

Hmm yeah, but pretty much any Eastern European man would try to hide something like this (going to prostitutes), from his family, no? I mean everyone is sort of divided on this issue - I mean obviously he did want to care about you and the family, but he also wanted to go to the "library".

At the same time, being confident in your abilities is not necessarily ego-centric. If you’re called on to do some task, then you need to approach it confidently, and in that sense approach it with belief in your ability. Provided that belief is well-founded, there’s nothing too much the matter with it. But in Western culture, the ‘individualist ethos’ is powerful and it tends towards nourishing a naturally ego-centred view of life, that what counts is ‘what is good for me’. That is something to be aware of. — Wayfarer

Thanks. I read "The Road Less Traveled" and at least one of his other books, "People of the Lie," probably 15 years ago. I enjoyed them, although they definitely had more of a religious slant that I usually like. "People of the Lie," if I remember correctly was pretty dark and biblical.

Didn't like the latter at all, I was disappointed with it. But I liked the first, because of it's emphasis on taking responsibility for yourself. It wasn't a feel-good book.

For someone who wants to be himself above all else, employment will be an oppressive, depressing, and anxiety filled journey. An intellectual response (albeit it impractical) would be to reject the entire enterprise and to demand the right to extensive personal liberty within the work context. The practical response would be entrepreneurship. Self-employment for a personal cause, that's where Hanover the high school guidance counselor would have directed you. — Hanover

Up until last year, I worked for my entire engineering career, 29 years, for the same company with people I love doing work that I enjoy, am good at, and was meant to do. That doesn't mean I wasn't miserable much of the time, but that was me, not my job or my life. What else should I have been doing other than using the talents I have been given to earn a good living for my family and do productive and worthwhile work.

Entrepreneurism is not an option for someone without strong self-confidence and drive. Working for a company run by others doing what you are good at is a better option for those of us who are not as dynamic as you perhaps are. It's naive to be recommending it to PMcP, who is questioning whether or not he even has a self.

Entrepreneurism is not an option for someone without strong self-confidence and drive. Working for a company run by others doing what you are good at is a better option for those of us who are not as dynamic as you perhaps are. It's naive to be recommending it to PMcP, who is questioning whether or not he even has a self. — T Clark

The thing about the internet is that there's so much opportunity to be realized just from sitting at home. I have a friend whom I gave the idea to start a supplement company with buying the supplements penny cheap from China (can be done through Alibaba) and outsourcing the packaging and shipping. It's really a one-man job and doesn't require too much oversight once you get the thing going. Last I spoke with him, he was making 50k a month sitting at home and just playing with himself. He's still on the 10'th page of Google search, so there's A LOT of more potential for growth. He has invited me to move with him to Las Vegas due to cheaper living costs and lower taxes and pay for my rent and living expenses and a good wage for doing nothing really. The only reason I haven't jumped on the wagon is that my mother is going through a division of joint assets with my cold and aloof father. Once the whole thing is settled and ends with a happy ending, then I will most likely move over there to be more independent and self-sufficient rather than living on disability and supplementing my income from a guy who does the same thing and makes 400k a month. So, there is hope and I don't feel depressed these days by a wide margin.

I don't disagree with anything you said here at all. For some, working for others is the best option. My advice was to Bitter, not Posty. I don't think Posty ought to start his own business. In fact, I'd suggest a simple job that gets him out of the house around friends, but definetly not something stressful and demanding like entrepeneurship.

We do the best we can. I have diverse interests that allow me to learn more about myself and life, always in moderation with no expectations other than what unfolds. Your best and only teacher is yourself. — Rich

Very wise advice

The thing about the internet is that there's so much opportunity to be realized just from sitting at home. I have a friend whom I gave the idea to start a supplement company with buying the supplements penny cheap from China (can be done through Alibaba) and outsourcing the packaging and shipping. It's really a one-man job and doesn't require too much oversight once you get the thing going. Last I spoke with him, he was making 50k a month sitting at home and just playing with himself. He's still on the 10'th page of Google search, so there's A LOT of more potential for growth. He has invited me to move with him to Las Vegas due to cheaper living costs and lower taxes and pay for my rent and living expenses and a good wage for doing nothing really. The only reason I haven't jumped on the wagon is that my mother is going through a division of joint assets with my cold and aloof father. Once the whole thing is settled and ends with a happy ending, then I will most likely move over there to be more independent and self-sufficient rather than living on disability and supplementing my income from a guy who does the same thing and makes 400k a month. So, there is hope and I don't feel depressed these days by a wide margin. — Posty McPostface

Very true. I think the internet is the future - many internet entrepreneurs will be driving Ferraris in 20 years, while lawyers, bankers, doctors, etc. will be driving horses! :lol:

People do not realise it, but at the rate things are moving now, pretty much the entire world will become digital, especially in regards to commerce. All commerce will be moving online.

The internet makes it so easy to start a business and connect with a market. You literarily can do pretty much by yourself what 40 years ago you could only do by hiring and managing a team of people.

Entrepreneurism is not an option for someone without strong self-confidence — T Clark

That's not true. Entrepreneurs appear to be self-confident because people identify them as taking risks, and it is true that they do take risks. But taking risks is not synonymous with having a strong self-confidence.

I'm an entrepreneur, and I can tell you for sure that my fear response is a lot more sensitive and strong than for most people. Inwardly I am never confident, and always think whatever I do will fail. I have also been diagnosed and put on medicine (no longer take the meds) for generalised anxiety disorder (GAD), hypochondria, and OCD. Outwardly, to all my friends - they would say I am really confident. But the outward is just a show - I've learned that not displaying fear allows me to control situations better, so I hide it - I've learned to ignore it and act in spite of it.

So this is a sort of cultural prejudice that the entrepreneur is this sort of "super-human". It's actually an excuse - they don't try their hand at entrepreneurship because "it's not for them".

A certain dose of arrogance helps in being an entrepreneur - and stubbornness too. But it needs to be a rational kind of arrogance and stubbornness - not the kind that makes you take bad business decisions.

drive — T Clark

Yes, I would say this part is required - you must really want it - for whatever reason. Whether that's the money, the independence, the power to change something, etc.

Working for a company run by others doing what you are good at is a better option for those of us who are not as dynamic as you perhaps are. — T Clark

No, that's just a way to stay in your comfort zone. You never grow that way, so if your life is about feeling safe, sure, do that, but otherwise I wouldn't recommend it because you'll regret it later.

It's naive to be recommending it to PMcP, who is questioning whether or not he even has a self. — T Clark

Why? Try searching Google for "entrepreneur anxiety" and you'll be amazed at how many entrepreneurs struggle with anxiety - and also other mental illnesses. Almost a majority of entrepreneurs suffer of mental illness.

https://www.inc.com/john-brandon/49-of-entrepreneurs-deal-with-a-mental-disorder-heres-how-to-cope.html

I would say that if you learn to control it and manage it, being "different" is an advantage as an entrepreneur.

Most people have this fairy tale idea of the entrepreneur as some kind of invincible hero who always succeeds at whatever he touches - a sort of Midas. But that's not true - he succeeds because he puts in literarily almost non-stop working hours for many many years, and battles through whatever comes his way, whether that is mental illness, fear, lack of finances, etc. - whatever comes his way, he will bear it, and like a bull not get his eyes off the ball, not give up.

He's still on the 10'th page of Google search, so there's A LOT of more potential for growth — Posty McPostface

By the way man, I meant to ask you if you don't mind sharing this, what's his main lead generation method? (I suppose it's not search engines granted his position - does he do Adwords?) You can reply by PM if you want to.

Most people have this fairy tale idea of the entrepreneur as some kind of invincible hero who always succeeds at whatever he touches - a sort of Midas. But that's not true - he succeeds because he puts in literarily almost non-stop working hours for many many years, and battles through whatever comes his way, whether that is mental illness, fear, lack of finances, etc. - whatever comes his way, he will bear it, and like a bull not get his eyes off the ball, not give up. — Agustino

It's still not for me, but I respect and admire what you have done.