like a bull not get his eyes off the ball, — Agustino

Why are bulls so interested in the ball?

*Bulling balls

Most people have this fairy tale idea of the entrepreneur as some kind of invincible hero who always succeeds at whatever he touches - a sort of Midas. But that's not true - he succeeds because he puts in literarily almost non-stop working hours for many many years, and battles through whatever comes his way, whether that is mental illness, fear, lack of finances, etc. - whatever comes his way, he will bear it, and like a bull not get his eyes off the ball, not give up. — Agustino

This is also a fairy tale, one we often hear from entrepreneurs. The successful ones, of course. The ones who give TED talks extolling the virtues of failure and reminiscing about the days when they lived on gruel, and so on and on.

Working for a company run by others doing what you are good at is a better option for those of us who are not as dynamic as you perhaps are. — T Clark

No, that's just a way to stay in your comfort zone. You never grow that way, so if your life is about feeling safe, sure, do that, but otherwise I wouldn't recommend it because you'll regret it later. — Agustino

This is a careless comment Gus. If you're, say, a civil engineer, then working for an established company is the best way to develop your craft, because it provides the resources, variety of projects, and administrative support to allow you to focus on your specialist tasks. Sometimes, security is necessary to give you the space to progress. Think also of what academia does for scientists: it is not an easy option, but rather the proper context in which they can concentrate on what they're interested in. How useful is it for an engineer to have to worry about business when what they really want to do is build great dams?

And I say this as someone who, perhaps like you, gave up working for other people and started a business.

This is also a fairy tale, one we often hear from entrepreneurs. The successful ones, of course. The ones who give TED talks extolling the virtues of failure and reminiscing about the days when they lived on gruel, and so on and on. — jamalrob

I have not personally known an entrepreneur who had it easy, especially not in the beginning. Even doctors who had worked for 20+ years, when they first started on their own they had quite a rough patch. Though some entrepreneurs have it easier than others, obviously. I would put IT entrepreneurs like us in that category actually - basically no transportation logistics, no inventory management, heavily automated (because online), don't depend on work geographically, etc. It's quite a simple business really.

If you're, say, a civil engineer, then working for an established company is the best way to develop your craft, because it provides the resources, variety of projects, and administrative support to allow you to focus on your specialist tasks. — jamalrob

Oh, interesting - I actually am a civil engineer by degree. There is a reason why I'm not working as a civil engineer and it's precisely this - it's difficult to start a business as a civil engineer.

How useful is it for an engineer to have to worry about business when what they really want to do is build great dams? — jamalrob

That's not what I meant. Sure, in the beginning, as an engineer, you need to work for an established company to develop your craft. 5, 10, 20 years. But if you keep working after that in the same conditions, then almost certainly you've stopped growing. Either you must change position, or you must start on your own, a consulting company, a general contractor, etc.

I actually am a civil engineer by degree — Agustino

Me too.

But if you keep working after that in the same conditions, then almost certainly you've stopped growing. Either you must change position, or you must start on your own, a consulting company, a general contractor, etc. — Agustino

But changing position, taking on more responsibility and so on, can also be done in an established company. In any case, you were dead wrong to respond to T Clark's comment, "working for a company run by others doing what you are good at is a better option ...", by saying "no, that's just a way to stay in your comfort zone". It isn't always.

What's the correlation between civil engineer and hobbyist philosopher? :chin: :chin:

Please, I'm an amateur, not a hobbyist.

T Clark and Agustino are the only philosophical civil engineers I know, so I'm guessing it's just a delightful coincidence.

Please, I'm an amateur, not a hobbyist. — jamalrob

Seems like a dialect issue; amateur has a negative con' over here in Ammuurica.

T Clark and Agustino are the only philosophical civil engineers I know, so I'm guessing it's just a delightful coincidence. — jamalrob

Oh right, how many other aspiring career musicians do you find around here, other than old @Terrapin Station, who seems to have disappeared? :rofl:

Seems like a dialect issue; amateur has a negative con' over here in Ammuurica. — Noble Dust

Yes, also in the UK, but I like to emphasize the word's etymology, according to which it means someone who does something for the love of it, not for the money.

Oh right, how many other aspiring career musicians do you find around here, other than old Terrapin Station, who seems to have disappeared? — Noble Dust

Wayfarer is a musician I believe, and I noodle on a cute little curved soprano sax from time to time.

What's the correlation between civil engineer and hobbyist philosopher? :chin: :chin: — Noble Dust

More interesting than that, what's the correlation between civil engineering and web development :rofl:

Yes, also in the UK, but I like to emphasize the word's etymology, according to which it means someone who does something for the love of it, not the money. — jamalrob

Ah fuck, I just got schooled by the bossman. Whatever, I'll pretend I have a goal-post-moving argument that grabs sufficient attention so-as to prevent common knowledge of my current ass-kicking-in-progress *ca-ching* DONE :100:

Wayfarer is a musician I believe, and I noodle on a cute little curved soprano sax from time to time. — jamalrob

I do remember Wayfarer as a keyboardist of some sort; I know a few others who tinkle the keys, but I can only remember TS as someone who is/was apparently a semi/full professional musician, other than myself.

T Clark and Agustino are the only philosophical civil engineers I know, so I'm guessing it's just a delightful coincidence. — jamalrob

Yeah, I've never met others either.

More interesting than that, what's the correlation between civil engineering and web development — Agustino

I actually know several guys I studied with who went into programming of one kind or another.

:yawn:

I actually know several guys I studied with who went into programming of one kind or another. — jamalrob

Well yeah, programming sure. A lot of civil engineering involves programming too - finite element analysis, parametric modelling, etc. all can't do without programming.

Sleep?

I know about parametric EQ!

I do remember Wayfarer as a keyboardist of some sort; I know a few others who tinkle the keys, but I can only remember TS as someone who is/was apparently a semi/full professional musician, other than myself. — Noble Dust

Ah yes, I see. Me, I sacrificed my glorious musical talents to Mammon and my creative spirit was crushed by the relentless imperatives of capital. :wink:

What about it?

Sleeping is the correlation between civil engineering & web development?

God, fuck off; too close to home right now. :rofl:

I'm currently wrestling with my desire to express the inward musical drive, against the insanity of Mammon himself; do I actually want to sacrifice my precious gift at his feet? Sell my soul to America?

Oh, is it?

Actually it was just my excuse for not practising today :grin:

Oh, I never practice. I just write dope shit.

:cool:

Oh, is it? — Noble Dust

Yeah, a web developer is a civil engineer who has gone to sleep :naughty:

Huh, how is that so?

What's the correlation between civil engineer and hobbyist philosopher? — Noble Dust

You don't have to be real smart.

Yeah, I've never met others either. — Agustino

Yasir Arafat was a civil engineer, but I guess that doesn't count.