It is my view that there can be a difference between self interest and social interest only in societies which are internally divided. In truth, they are not even societies, but rather conglomerates of different societies. The society of men, the society of women, the society of rich, the society of poor, etc. They are only under the illusion of being a society, because in truth, they aren't a unity but a multiplicity. — Agustino
Stating the idea that men and women have different interests inherent in their gender is just an intolerable act to the social constructionists. — Bitter Crank
What does being submissive mean? For the purpose of this discussion I define submissive as being deferential. What that means is when one person defers to another in decision making and/or behavior. Being obsequious would be an extreme example of submissiveness. Most submissive behavior – in my opinion – goes unnoticed because it is considered normal. I think it is important to come to terms with these concepts; because it reveals a lot about how we understand ourselves. Additionally what we think of others – both male and female. What do you think – how do you behave? — Thinker
Yes, I agree.I think what this reveals is that it has become a norm, at least in Western countries, to think that everyone has to have an opinion, and that everyone should seek to have their problems resolved by blaming someone else - institutions, education, economic system etc. Therefore hardly anyone feels responsible for anything. "If I have a problem, it's certainly because they discriminate against me." That's the line of lazy, irresponsible thinking that sadly dominates Western society. — Coldlight
I also agree here. Democracies also have another problem - those in charge of the community (the leaders) are more worried about holding onto power, than taking care of administrative duties. Indeed, holding on to power becomes the primary concern, and sometimes the only one.Secondly, there is very little if any real authority. That is a general problem of democracy. All of a sudden everyone is an expert on politics, and able to judge what the president is doing. It's not that their concerns are not justified, it's that again, in a democratic regime, the leader has no reason to take as much responsibility, it's just a few years, after all. — Coldlight
I don't see any of the comments there from me as disrespectful to women. And I also don't think women are disrespected in (Western) society at large. Though in the Eastern countries, they probably are disrespected (still).I think it gives a good lesson in the disrespect for women felt and expressed by some members of this forum — T Clark
I also agree here. Democracies also have another problem - those in charge of the community (the leaders) are more worried about holding onto power, than taking care of administrative duties. Indeed, holding on to power becomes the primary concern, and sometimes the only one. — Agustino
The more educated people put more emphasis on respect than in the West. I am from Eastern Europe btw.In what way? I’d would disagree that they are inherently disrespectful just because they organise their Societies in a different way. I think they put more emphasis on respect than the West. That doesn’t mean people can’t be disrespectful, but it’s certainly, from my opinion, much more respect focused. — Mr Phil O'Sophy
Well, I am also a conservative.It depends as what your setting as the goal post for disrespect. If your morals are quite conservative, (like mine are) then the majority of youths (any many who are not so youthful) these days (male and female) contribute to the disrespect of the opposite gender (and their own) all the time. — Mr Phil O'Sophy
Yes, "public opinion" seems to have become a way to arbitrate between what is right and wrong, and what is true and false in the West. If you watch students working together (for example), you'll see that the moment they reach an impasse, they will say "let's vote", instead of "let's try to think more clearly about what the truth is". And then the result of the vote is taken as truth, and the opposition is silenced. In the West, the opinion of the masses is the standard of truth. And this bastardization of truth seems to come part and parcel with democracy.The problem is also that the life in a society (or what's left of the society really) is often portrayed as a constant competition going to the point of an almost violent conflict of interests and ideologies. I find that everyone has a right for an opinion only if they keep it to themselves. If anyone decides to voice their opinion and use it publicly, they should take responsibility and bear the consequences. To take it further - the problem is not when someone says something, but when they propagandise it and try to sway public opinion on the other side. — Coldlight
Yes, I would agree. Some respond to ressentiment in the same spirit that they were attacked, and hence, paradoxically, propagate the same spirit further.It is the fact that some men (there's probably no formed group) retaliate by using the same rhetoric. So, they try to strike back with "No, actually, you discriminate against me!" This means they get converted to a superficially created way of confrontation. — Coldlight
where is this? when you refer to the east where are you referring to exactly? like the entire east side of the world map? Igor Just where you happen to be? — Mr Phil O'Sophy
I am from Eastern Europe btw. — Agustino
Yes, but there usually are some limits in many Western countries.I’ve seen female bosses talk like crap to their employees, i’ve seen male bosses talk like crap to their employees. — Mr Phil O'Sophy
It absolutely does, if you're not educated in the sense that I'm talking about (which is moral education), then you will almost inevitably behave like a brute.And I don’t see how education has anything to do with it (if you’re referring to intellectual education) I think it’s more about being taught good etiquette, which is something available regardless of how educated you are. — Mr Phil O'Sophy
Yes, towards visitors, since visitors have money, and they have what to take.I’ve witnessed some of the poorest places (and least educated) to be some of the most respectful and courteous places i’ve visited. — Mr Phil O'Sophy
Hmmm - like you mean going to punch the teacher, or throwing stuff while they lecture at the board, etc.? Is that "more polite"? How about going to exams where people literarily talk to each other and give each other the answers, while the instructors repeat "no talking" while doing nothing to actually stop the cheating?I find most children/teenagers from poor countries to be unquantifiably more polite than western pupils in school getting a full education. — Mr Phil O'Sophy
I don't understand the question.whether or not there should be gender equality. — Purple Pond
We all know that men and women are different. — Purple Pond
Men are usually more masculine and women are usually more feminine. — Purple Pond
This is not to say that perceptions of what consists of masculinity and femininity can't change. — Purple Pond
In the STEM field, for example, men are grossly overrepresented in jobs related to science, technology, engineering, and math. — Purple Pond
But why is there such a gap? Are women being oppressed? — Purple Pond
Perhaps in other cases there is a reason beyond the discrimination, may be in certain areas male traits are more desirable such as competitiveness and assertiveness. Can you think of other reasons why there is gender inequality? — Purple Pond
I personally haven't decided on whether or not there should be gender equality. I don't know how much male and female trait differences matter. What do you think? — Purple Pond
In the U.S. and, as far as I know, the rest of the post-Industrial world we have decided that every person, regardless of his/her sex, should have the same opportunities. How could you--or anybody--doubt that that is the right thing to do, let alone oppose it? — WISDOMfromPO-MO
Doubting the wisdom of, or directly opposing, equal opportunities for girls and women because of their biology makes as much sense as doubting the wisdom of or directly opposing equal opportunities for short people because of their biology. — WISDOMfromPO-MO
Two of the major protagonists were TimeLine and Agustino. It turned pretty ugly. I think it gives a good lesson in the disrespect for women felt and expressed by some members of this forum, not to mention society at large. — T Clark
For example, I was at a notary last week, and he started swearing (with everyone there) at his secretary, then threatened to fire her, reminded her she has a child and is responsible for him, etc. That's definitely not decent treatment, and if it was a man instead of a woman he wouldn't have dared to do that. — Agustino
Back when I lived at the countryside, one of the neighbours there cut his wife with the sword because she refused to have sex with him — Agustino
No, very likely this wasn't the case, despite Ida Tarbell's account, which was more vilification than truth. Ron Chernow's biography is more accurate. — Agustino
How do we know this? Because a lot of the producers who sold out to Rockefeller remained in the business working for Standard Oil, and many of them became very rich, millionaires. So going from starving oil producer to millionaire is quite an improvement I would think, no? — Agustino
How do you define same opportunities? — Coldlight
or a member of an American Indian people in Northern California... — Mr Phil O'Sophy
Hmm, I'm not a member of that club.So, what did your fellow Rotarians do about this example of atrocious behavior (on the part of their fellow Rotarian?) — Bitter Crank
Yes, partly so. Everyone from the Balkans tends to get hot under the collar over casual stuff :rofl:Were your neighbors Slavic? Slavs seem to get hot under the collar (it's an expression, not a diagnosis of localized neck fever) over fairly casual slights. Unlike the rest of humanity who are always extremely thoughtful about what they get angry about. — Bitter Crank
As I told you before, I have read very little about the descendants of JDR Sr.His son, JDR Jr., the one who supervised the Rockefeller fortune after JDR died, and built Rockefeller Center, seemed to feel that his father's history was something of a burden to bear. — Bitter Crank
Carnegie & Vanderbilt are different than, say, Rockefeller and Henry Ford. The former were ruthless, and did engage in immoral practices. So we might have the same view about them.But I wouldn't expect you and me to have have the same view of Rockefeller or Carnegie, or various other tycoons. — Bitter Crank
This is arguable. Even in court, if there are no damages (but quite the contrary), you usually hardly have a case in economic matters. If your ego was insulted, well, tough luck - you still made more money than you would have otherwise out of it. The truth is that Rockefeller helped stabilise the oil industry & create a reliable & stable output which allowed for further technical development. He was also a very devout Christian his whole life, and always tithed 10% of his income to the Church.No doubt it is better to become a millionaire on the coat tails of the guy who swindled you out of your business than to be bitter and resentful for eternity. However... that doesn't make the swindler a nice guy in a white hat. — Bitter Crank
Hmm, I'm not a member of that club. — Agustino
Yes, partly so. Everyone from the Balkans tends to get hot under the collar over casual stuff :rofl: — Agustino
:lol:There have been several prominent examples of Balkanites getting hot under their collective casual collars and then getting totally out of hand -- like some archduke merely taking a drive through Sarajevo one fine day, or more recently Yugoslavia disintegrating, and then some dissatisfaction with Kosovo, et al... — Bitter Crank
Maybe - I know a lawyer who is a member there. Thanks for the suggestion.Rotary International does good work, and it's a good networking organization. I would think you would find it beneficial to belong. — Bitter Crank
1. Learning, education and development
Some children and adults thrive more in single-sexed education and recreational
activities. This includes single-sex schools, Girl Guides and women and girls in STEM subjects.
2. Sanctuary, privacy and recovery
Single-sex spaces mean participants can be confident they will be free from
potential harassment, voyeurism, intrusion, domination or embarrassment
That doesn’t mean you’re not manly. Jordan Peterson never made a claim to the extent you’re suggesting there. When talking about men that work 80+ hours a week he was referring to an extreme minority of males willing to commit themselves to such things. — Mr Phil O'Sophy
As mentioned, the model of masculinity that JP uses to highlight these supposedly natural gender differences, at least as I understand it, would not be seen as such in other premodern or maybe even contemporary non-Western contexts — Erik
Studies have shown that women are just as proficient in mathematics, science, and other STEM related fields, as men are. — Maw
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