A killer bot pursued by its doppelganger bots.

I'd have to meet to convince him that murder was wrong. I know that he already thinks that it is, I just have to make him realize, and admit it.

Once I proceed to murder him, he'll be all like "aaah, no! Stop murdering me! Murder is wrong when it's me!". I'll then nod with approval, before I finish murdering him, because fuck that guy, amirite?

Here's a different but still interesting question:

If you were placed in such a situation to do so, how might you convince a killer to stop committing murder. I know it is extremely broad as there are hundreds of reasons that the killer might be killing, but that's entirely the point. Is there any kind of argument based on the sanctity of human life or something of the sort with a wide enough appeal so that it might be used on most people? Alternately, what kinds of arguments could be used for different killer profiles (how might you convince the psychopath that enjoys it, the desperate one that does it for money, etc)?

Should I post this as another thread?

I "am" the killer for this thread if you want to say something to him. For me, that is the most interesting part of the thread. You can ask the killer why is he doing that (and he might give you an answer).

But it seems like you are the first one who would do that, David.

I "am" the killer for this thread if you want to say something to him. For me, that is the most interesting part of the thread. You can ask the killer why is he doing that (and he might give you an answer). — TSBU

No...

... that's playing into the hands of the killer; thus empowering him.

Here's a better question:

Is it possible to have a rational conversation using any standard norms of social behaviour with someone who is a serial killer?

Let's assume for a moment you are not a medical killer (rare, but do exist) or a disorganized killer (they make mistaks - hee hee - and are the easiest to catch) and assume you are a classical organized killer...

... then, you're probably highly intelligent, thus use this form of communication as a means to manipulate. Any conversation would be less and "question and answer modus", but more you guiding the questions with answers that lead to the question being asked you wish to be asked.

You're more than likely well organized to the point of being obsessive compulsive. Every detail of the crime is planned out well in advance (including such a dialog on an internet message board) and the you'd take every precaution to make sure they leave no incriminating evidence behind, so any answers you give would be more misleading than useful in finding out your identity.

A serial killer would, by perhaps older definitions, be considered a psychopath.

Psychopathy (/saɪˈkɒpəθi/) is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, egotistical traits. (sourse wiki)

Again...

... is a rational conversation, as if you are just the "average Joe", really possible much less useful?

Why did I try to provoke you earlier?

Simple...

... a psychopath, like you, likes to watch potential victims for several days to find someone they consider to be a good target. Once the victim is chosen, the you'd meet up with them in a calculated fashion, often through some sort of ploy designed to gain their sympathy. You'd make sure they were killed in the proper location, either the meeting point or a place that fits your ritual.

Being a psychopath, you'd have certainly an egotistical trait that might well be the Achilles heel. The vast majority of psychopaths cannot resist a challenge or someone exhibiting traits such as their own, especially when the provocation exceeds their own level of egoism.

I simply attempted to see if you'd bite. I appear not to be shocked or even really moved by your anti-social actions and arrogantly provided you knowingly a "victim made easy" guideline. It's a test of your obsessive compulsive egoistic drive.

As Wilde once stated: "The only thing I cannot resist is temptation."

Also, gee whiz ... going to the internet... huh, you obviously want to show off. Once you kill a person you'd usually take precautions to ensure the body is not found … until you want it to be found. You live for control. By presenting your victim in an internet forum of your choosing and presented in your manner, let's face it... you take great pride in what they consider to be your "art" or "design" or "creation" or "gift" or “work”... whatever defintion you wish to attach to self-justify what you are doing.

Like any other serial killer you have a tendency to pay close attention to media and wish to use it. This explains the internet choice. You want to be known.

Obviously one of your motivating factors may be just to attempt to stump the law enforcement officers who are trying to solve their crime. You are probably very savvy as to how they'd do an investigation and feel great power in pulling them by the nose ring you have attached to them by your own means.

So...

... why should I play your game with your rules?

Meow!

GREG

Is it possible to have a rational conversation using any standard norms of social behaviour with someone who is a serial killer? — Mayor of Simpleton

Yes, of course. It's not just possible, but incredibly likely. Do you think serial killers are like extraterrestrials? They're more human than you might think.

Yes, of course. It's not just possible, but incredibly likely. Do you think serial killers are like extraterrestrials? They're more human than you might think. — Sapientia

Really?

First of all... I have no concept of the rationality of extraterrestrials. Never met one, much less held a conversation with one. Have you?

Also, since when is being "human" a guarantee of any rational conversation?

Sure we can wax validity of their positions only within the context of their psychopathic anti-social behaviour, but is this really the standard of measure we wish to employ?

Really... to what end?

Sure if you are just involved with a thought experiment... well... then have fun... but I prefer to act in more than the theoretical, as let's face it... if they kill someone for real, that's not a thought game.

Meow!

GREG

EDIT:

Indeed you can have a rational conversation within the context standard socially accepted norms (as in killing people for the sake of a psychopathic urge is not one of these socially accepted norms) with a psychopath, but only in therapy... and not in the first couple of sessions.

Remember the "rules of the game" we're made to play... 20 replies a day by just anyone.

Playing this murderer role:
------------
You are wrong about me. I'm not very intelligent, I'm carefull(I hope you understand that I'm not going to tell you how). I generally chose my victims because they are easy targets.
I can't anticipate what are you going to say. You don't have to believe me, but I'm really interested in a reason to stop.
I think a lot of people want to kill someone, it's relaxing, they don't do it because they feel fear. I don't feel guilty about my victims, a lot of people die every day. I really don't know why should I stop. But I know that a lot of people think that this is wrong, and I'm interested in see why, in see how a lot of people think in this matters, or how they feel about it. I feel... alone in my mind, I want to understand and be understood.
--------------
Remember, you are in this situation. If you cannot imagine this, then don't play, but if you play, that's what the killer said. And remember, I'm not the killer, I'm just curious.

20 pages of replys XD and that's what the killer said, he can change his mind.

Really? — Mayor of Simpleton

Yes, really.

First of all... I have no concept of the rationality of extraterrestrials. Never met one, much less held a conversation with one. Have you? — Mayor of Simpleton

No. Well, besides that odd little fellow who wanted to use my telephone. The point was that they'd presumably have no preexisting understanding of any of our standard norms of social behaviour, and might well be more like a cat than a human, so rational discourse might be difficult if not impossible. But who knows?

Also, since when is being "human" a guarantee of any rational conversation? — Mayor of Simpleton

It's not, and I never said it was, but it makes it much more likely, since most of us humans can and do have rational conversations.

Sure we can wax validity of their positions only within the context of their psychopathic anti-social behaviour, but is this really the standard of measure we wish to employ? — Mayor of Simpleton

Don't know what you mean. My point was simply that it would be very naïve and a mistake to rule out the aforementioned possibility simply on the basis that they've murdered multiple people. I don't know what could have made you even raise the question unless you have a sizeable misconception somewhere along the line.

Indeed you can have a rational conversation within the context standard socially accepted norms (as in killing people for the sake of a psychopathic urge is not one of these socially accepted norms) with a psychopath, but only in therapy... and not in the first couple of sessions. — Mayor of Simpleton

I think that this is simply false, and it's based on a misconception you have of both serial killers and psychopaths. It was in fact a serial killer that was the subject of your original question, but you've now changed that to (or made the addition of) a psychopath. Do you use the terms synonymously as labels for someone you, for whatever reason, conceive of as lacking these human features which they do not in fact necessarily lack, and likely do not, unless they're completey insane, which is rare?

I've a few minutes, so I'll play a bit... in spite of it being a 20 page rule... like I give a shit about your rules.

You are wrong about me. I'm not very intelligent, I'm carefull(I hope you understand that I'm not going to tell you how). I generally chose my victims because they are easy targets. — TSBU

Strange...

... you have no selection process other than "they happen to be there"?

That's not very safe or careful.

How are they "easy targets"?

You have to take into consideration so many factors, as just killing someone in a dark place by themself is not really a careful action. I'm not buying this.

I can't anticipate what are you going to say. You don't have to believe me, but I'm really interested in a reason to stop. — TSBU

Then stop!

Gee whiz! Why all the dramatic cry baby "I can't help myself bullshit" and going to an internet forum to get help. Go to a professional or simply turn yourself in.

Again... I'm not buying this.

I think a lot of people want to kill someone — TSBU

Indeed, but they don't. Also, if they do kill someone, that does not make them a serial killer.

It's relaxing, — TSBU

Are you bullshitting me?

If it's relaxing, you wouldn't have this conflict of wanting to quit.

Not buying this...

I don't feel guilty about my victims, a lot of people die every day. — TSBU

Then why do you want to stop?

Make up your mind!

Sure a lot of people die every day, but since when do you get to decide when someone is to die?

Seriously not buying this...

I really don't know why should I stop. But I know that a lot of people thinks that this is wrong, and I'm interested in see why, in see how a lot of people thinks in this matters. — TSBU

This is a different question than why should I stop. You are asking is muder wrong. Might I suggest opening another thread or simply staying on the topic.

Seriously... this is a hard sell you are tossing my way.

I feel... alone in my mind. — TSBU

Get in line...

Remember, you are in this situation. If you cannot imagine this, then don't play, but if you play, that's what the killer said. And remember, I'm not the killer, I'm just curious. — TSBU

So it's a false dilemma.

Just peachy!

Meow!

GREG

I think that this is simply false, and it's based on a misconception you have of both serial killers and psychopaths. It was in fact a serial killer that was the subject of your original question, but you've now changed that to (or made the addition of) a psychopath. Do you use the terms synonymously as labels for someone you, for whatever reason, conceive of as lacking these human features which they do not in fact necessarily lack, and likely do not, unless they're completey insane, which is rare. — Sapientia

It's kind of like the all thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers are thumbs.

All serial killers are psychopaths, but not all psychopaths are serial killers.

Meow!

GREG

Playing murderer role:
-----------

... you have no selection process other than "they happen to be there"?

I have a selection process, based in how easily I can kill them without letting proofs.

How are they "easy targets"?

Oh, yes, I'll tell you, then I'll tell you what is my name, where I live...

Then stop!

Gee whiz! Why all the dramatic cry baby "I can't help myself bullshit" and going to an internet forum to get help. Go to a professional or simply turn yourself in.

No, I'm interested in a reason to stop. That's different than being interested in stop. I want a reason because I want to understand and be understood, to feel that there are people similar to me. But I can't see them now, and I still feel good when I kill someone. I'm not crying, I just know what I want, and I search.

Indeed, but they don't. Also, if they do kill someone, that does not make them a serial killer.

Try to do the same over and over, then they'll say you are a serial killer, you know how journalists are. But I don't feel this is a game.
I think I'm not going to answer you anymore...
-------------

My reaction to post #22

20 pages of replys XD and that's what the killer said, he can change his mind. — TSBU

I think I'm not going to answer you anymore... — TSBU

I'm not crying — TSBU

I think I'm not going to answer you anymore... — TSBU

I want to understand and be understood — TSBU

I just know what I want — TSBU

Try to do the same over and over, then they'll say you are a serial killer, you know jow journalist are — TSBU

I don't feel this is a game. — TSBU

Playing murderer role — TSBU

Indeed...

... this space between us is perhaps a very good idea.

Meow!

GREG

I think I'm not going to answer you anymore... — TSBU

that's what the killer said, he can change his mind. — TSBU

As Wilde once stated: "The only thing I cannot resist is temptation." — Mayor of Simpleton

ehmmm, what? XD

ehmmm, what? XD — TSBU

I think I'm not going to answer you anymore... — TSBU

As Wilde once stated: "The only thing I cannot resist is temptation." — Mayor of Simpleton

Made you look.

Meow!

GREG

I don't understand. Can anyone understand what are you saying?

What if we try to persuade the killer to kill themselves if we cannot dissuade them to cease killing others? That would work right?

Alternatively we could attempt to occupy their time by whatever means...

Each comment on the daily 20 pages of comments could be a cleverly crafted hook designed to grab any readers attention and pull them into a very time-consuming affair of some kind.

For instance, we could begin by cleverly agreeing with them and planting suggestions that ancient samurai style sword-play is the ultimate method of killing.

We could then waste a shit ton of their time by bombarding them with books and documentaries on the samurai fighting style, and even possibly get them into the actual philosophical teachings of the ancient samurai.

After we have wasted months of their time, thus saving many lives, we can take it even further by coercing them into believing that they must commit seppuku (hara-kiri) for some arbitrary reason, thus finally concluding the dilemma proposed by the OP.

Cheers!

It looks like "my posts doesn't meet the standard required for this forum.". So, if someone want to play the murderer role, go ahead.
It was fun. I will go to another site (don't worry, that doesn't mean there are going to be more kills XD).

There is no reasoning with an irrational person.

Obviously the person is not motivated to kill by the audiences reaction and the killer cannot simply pass off responsibility for the lives of others to the audience.

If the person wants to kill others that is what they will do regardless of the audience...the first murder is proof of this much.

The only reasonable thing to do...in my opinion...is ignore them and hope they get caught soon.

Unless you believe you might find some clues as to who the killer is by their interaction with audience and solve the case yourself.

It's kind of like the all thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers are thumbs.

All serial killers are psychopaths, but not all psychopaths are serial killers. — Mayor of Simpleton

It would be like that if all serial killers are psychopaths, but they're not.

So, overall, not all serial killers are psychopaths, but they suffer from similar mental conditions. A serial killer who does not suffer from any mental conditions is very rare and I am unsure if they even exist. Killers without mental conditions are common, but their killings are one-off majority of the time. They're the 'husband kills wife when he captures her sleeping with another man' type homicide. — Orville Matthews, Forensic Psychiatrist, MBBS, BA, BSc

https://www.quora.com/Are-all-serial-killers-psychopaths-If-not-who-are-some-exceptions

This article only goes as far as speaking of likelihood and a powerful connection:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201406/serial-killer-myth-1-theyre-mentally-ill-or-evil-geniuses

To the individual who quoted Orville Matthews - a quick google search reveals his only apparent existence is on Quora, and his image is a stock image. His (few) answers do NOT fit the profile of a forensic psychiatrist.