This is of course unpractical so I'm also using justified in a more colloquial sense, which I'd define so that a belief is justified if there's evidence for or a reason to believe in it or if it's a logical consequence of some reasonable thought process. The second definition does allow one to believe a justified belief is false. — BlueBanana
So what you are asking is whether it is possible for me to believe that I have a sound argument for P and yet not believe that P. I'm not sure whether I can coherently do that. — PossibleAaran
Smith doesn't have a sound argument because one of his premises is false. So, by your definition, Smith isn't justified in the 1st place. This was an account offerred by Russel years before Gettier even published, and also pursued by Lehrer, Klien and Mcgrew. Is that your solution? — PossibleAaran
I don't see how it could be the case that one could believe that a belief is false, yet also have reason to believe in it. — Metaphysician Undercover
I don't see how it could be the case that one could believe that a belief is false, yet also have reason to believe in it. Believing it to be false would negate any reason to believe in it. — Metaphysician Undercover
Perhaps someone has been framed for a crime, and so although the belief that they committed the crime is justified, I don't believe that they're guilty. — Michael
said "... or a reason to believe in it or...". One can have an opinion but recognize it as a subjective opinion while accepting that other opinions are reasonable. — BlueBanana
Truth is not justification. — creativesoul
We can believe that another's belief is both false and justified... — creativesoul
It was justified because it did not conflict/contradict what they thought they knew. — creativesoul
I've shown how Meta's notion of justification fails in at least three different ways... — creativesoul
If that doesn't suffice, nothing will. — creativesoul
If you do not believe that the person is guilty, and you believe that the person has been framed, how can you also believe that it is justified to believe that the person committed the crime? Do you think it's justified for a person to be convicted of a crime which they were framed for? — Metaphysician Undercover
There's evidence that they committed the crime but no evidence that they were framed. However, they're a friend of yours and you don't believe that they're the kind of person who would commit such a crime, and so infer that they were framed. — Michael
People quite often believe things that are contrary to the evidence, and so believe that justified beliefs are false. — Michael
So even though it wouldn't be justified for me to believe that he's guilty, given the evidence available to everyone else, their belief that he's guilty is justified. — Michael
You might think "they were justified in believing X". But this does not mean that you think that X is a justified belief. So if you do not think that X is a justified belief, yet you think "they were justified in believing X", but you state "X is a justified belief", then you are not telling the truth. — Metaphysician Undercover
They believe X. X is justified. I believe that X is and was a justified belief based upon what they thought that they knew at the time. — creativesoul
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