But there are people like Stephen Hawking, who don't seem to be either interested in religion,n or philosophy nor meditation - so maybe mental resilience cannot be attributed to those factors, — Agustino
In your view, what is the key to this mental resilience & mental energy? — Agustino
I think I agree with this, this is certainly part of it. Not being weighed down by the expectations of others, the opinions of others, the expectations of society, and so on so forth certainly frees a lot of mental energy that can then be channelled towards whatever you are interested in.it's adaptability and making your own rules. — Benkei
Making money is nice, but it's only one of the good things in life, and, I would agree with you, somewhat secondary. I think for many people it's hard to take your own value for granted, and you have the tendency to be approved of by others, to have others look up to you, and so on so forth. You know, the whole game. I personally try to take the Christian approach, that we are all valuable in the eyes of God just by being human beings created in the image of God - regardless of what we do or fail to do. The Stoics recommend a similar approach of situating your value in moral standards which are under your control.a) making money as a measure of success — Benkei
Yeah, I would say with regards to this point, lack of patience also plays a role, and just the expectation that you will be successful in whatever you're trying to do.b) hard on themselves to realise that success — Benkei
Can you expand more on what you mean here please?c) accept pressure and stress as part of the game. — Benkei
Yes, I have seen that quite often, especially with regards to women. I don't really understand that attitude to be honest - as if work was more valuable than raising a family, or a comparison can even be made...Meanwhile, a man that works three days a week to be with his family is frowned upon. For a woman it's more-or-less ok although much less so than it used to (why did you have a fancy education to be a stay at home mom?!). — Benkei
My attitude is always a bit different than what your statement here suggests to me. I think of stress as something internal, that is there regardless of the external situations that we encounter. So part of my attitude has always been to seek ways to be less stressed, while not eliminating the stressful situations as such. In other words, my point is that it's not the situations or the event that is stressful, but we are stressful. The same person may navigate the same situations or events without being stressed. Stress does not help solve the problem, but many times it is like a shadow which follows you while you're busy solving the problem.I hope the business stress passes. — Benkei
Why do you think inheritance plays such a strong role?If he was optimistic and resilient, this was perhaps a gift of inheritance. — Bitter Crank
Yes that is true with regards to anger for sure. Many times I have wanted to act a certain way when angry, and then, after calming down, the way I thought completely changed. So for me, it's almost a policy that if I get really angry, then I will not act until I am calm. Of course, there are situations when it's difficult to reign anger in, but over the years, anger has been a less and less significant issue for me. I am a (relatively) calm guy today compared to how I used to be.One might add that Hawking had an built-in delay mechanism between a thought and a feeling and its verbal expression. — Bitter Crank
Yeah that is always a problem, and it's difficult to deal with when it is within the family, and you can't act out to stop it in any way.He divorced and noted that one of his wives (can't remember which) had been abusive, for instance.) — Bitter Crank
Oh yeah, that's definitely true for me too. I used to be really bad at resilience, first sign of difficulty almost I would give up. I remember as a child, I was perhaps 5 or so, and when one of my toys broke I had to call my father for reassurance that things are okay :lol:I know I don't have as resilient a personality as some people's. I am more reactive and am more agitated than some. — Bitter Crank
You must mean medication? Or meditation? (Bitter Crank meditating! I would think you are the sort of person who doesn't believe in meditation instinctively haha :P would I be wrong?)mediation — Bitter Crank
:lol: - I also like that, but many people find it strange.When I can manage my life to incorporate lots of time alone — Bitter Crank
Is it? I did not have a secure & free childhood in many regards (though in others I certainly did), I don't think I was very much loved (it's a big word) by my parents (well materially I was never super deprived or anything, but emotionally my parents were distant), but I wouldn't call my childhood unhappy. There were some good moments in there and some bad ones. I think that's true for most people. Many of the people I've had the opportunity to talk to, work-related or friends, most of them have faced some kind of adversity through their childhood. I would say that for most people, a mixture of bad and good things in their childhood is the common finding.I have no doubt at all that a secure, free, and happy childhood is the master key. If one is loved and nurtured and cherished throughout one's formation, then one has the resources to tackle any challenge. — unenlightened
Maybe. Things aren't so clear-cut for me. There's a lot I still have to learn with regards to resilience, and I don't know how far I'll be able to go myself.For want of that, one has to rely on crutches of various sorts, none of which are entirely adequate. — unenlightened
Why do you think inheritance plays such a strong role? — Agustino
In your view, what is the key to this mental resilience & mental energy? — Agustino
Bitter Crank meditating! I would think you are the sort of person who doesn't believe in meditation — Agustino
I don't have much expertise on this, but I can tell you about my personal experience and what this has allowed me to understand. Over time, I've separated the strictly biological (like the nervous system) from the mind/brain. For example, I'm the sort of person who has a nervous system that responds very easily and very strongly to stimuli - meaning I get easily excited, easily anxious etc. It really is a nervous system thing. And then there is the mental aspect. That is how I react to those stimuli. At first, I thought the two were identical, but over time I've learned to separate them and pretty much control things at the higher, mental level. So when I say I overcame anxiety - what I mean is that it doesn't control my behaviour anymore (and doesn't make me ruminate, compulsions, obsessions, you know the whole game), not that I don't feel it - because I still feel it quite strongly. And some symptoms that are more directly related to my nervous & endocrine systems, I still experience - sweaty hands, Raynaud's.For instance, if some one is inflexible and easily agitated, is that a (feature of the endocrine system (too much adrenaline aka epinephrine produced) or is it a problem of interpreting sensory information to recognize threat? — Bitter Crank
Yes, I think the biological level is a lot more constrained than the mental one with regards to what we can improve. That has certainly been my experience, but then... I've been less than willing compared to other people to try stuff like diet changes, supplements, herbal medicines, etc. I haven't experimented enough with taking control of the biological level to be able to say much about it. I have had this "prejudice" let's say that the mind should be able to control everything, but obviously that is wrong - it only holds for the mental level.Our primate relatives, and I think ourselves, are pretty much quite ready to fear snakes and spiders--because both of them have posed an existential threat for about as long as mammals have been around. Well, polar bears haven't had to worry too much about snakes and spiders. So far, anyway. We have to work hard to learn how to tolerate or like snakes and spiders. Most people don't learn that tolerance. — Bitter Crank
To a certain extent. Succes is definitely not personal in the sense "I ALONE DID IT". But it is personal in the sense that adopting the right social attitudes, the right work ethic, always learning new things etc. these do play an important role. You also are responsible for the people you associate yourself with, if you learn to earn people's trust and respect, if you value and build relationships, etc. These are very important for success. Also, learning to judge people.Generally people want to give themselves credit for their successes and blame something else for their failures; but I think success is somewhat dependent on factors one can't control--like having ambition. — Bitter Crank
I agree that it is certainly not all voluntary. But, as they say, we have to focus on what we can control. That's why I'm always more interested in the voluntary, but I admit that the inherited does play a role.No one can build an airtight case for inheritance at this point, but it seems to me to be tighter than the case for chalking everything up to voluntary characteristics, will power, preferences, learned behaviors, and so on. — Bitter Crank
But the potential of the body that you call upon - what is the difference between that and mystical things? Why isn't the potential of the body mystical itself?There is a bunch of that stuff, yoga, tantric sex, meditation, and so forth that work because the body has certain potentials which can be called upon. — Bitter Crank
Hmm - depends what you mean by major crisis. If you mean the do-something-or-i'll-kill-myself type of event, then yeah... some Xanax can do wonders :rofl: . But MOST times are not like that I would say. Long-term use of those drugs has side-effects though. I was a lot less motivated when I took them for example, and also less focused and intense. I couldn't feel things as fully as before - didn't like it, that's why I worked towards quitting them and finding other methods. You also get some bad physical symptoms from them over time.It is, though, definitely limited. When a major crisis comes along, I prefer a dose of Ativan, Xanax, or alcohol--whatever is on hand--to meditation. But... if nothing else were available, meditation would probably help. — Bitter Crank
To a certain extent. But allow me to use a civil engineering analogy for once girl. There exist some materials (like ceramics) which are very strong but very brittle. And inversely, there exist materials which are super ductile, but weaker (steel for example). The first group of materials achieve a lot of strength - theoretically. But practically, very small imperfections tremendously weaken them, and they fracture easily. The other materials - they have a much lower theoretical strength, but they are more ductile and they resist much better to imperfections. We call the former imperfection sensitive.A hyperinflated sense of self-importance mixed with total disregard for the feelings of others. — CuddlyHedgehog
I don't really believe in this 'special talent' stuff. Some people work really hard in certain areas of life for a very long time. They also have somewhat "favourable" conditions that permit them to focus on their work. Take Federer who started learning tennis at 4, and was seriously training by 8. Most kids at that age don't do that kinda stuff. Or take Agassi who started playing, forced by his father, at 3. He went on to hate tennis and his father (according to his own autobiography Open), but it was his father who pushed him and made him into a champion basically. While other kids could play with each other, etc. he had to play tennis. Sure, we can say "woah, they're so talented" - but the truth is they dedicated so much effort to their art, that it would be really strange for them not to be in the top.In terms of making a grand contribution to theoretical physics, or composing a masterpiece of music or art, there's no substitute for having a special talent. — unenlightened
Yes, perhaps. It's certainly something you need to learn. If you don't learn it from your parents, then you need a boyfriend/girlfriend/wife/husband/close friend who cares for you and is patient with you.But to be a decent human being involves being 'dragged up proper'. — unenlightened
I don't know much about his early life, but I know that he wasn't on great terms with his parents who didn't treat his first wife well, and never liked her. See here.I don't know, but I predict from his ability to sustain a positive outlook in the face of such an appalling disability that he had a really good sustaining upbringing. If I am wrong about that, then his achievement is even more remarkable. — unenlightened
So from the quick looks of it, it doesn't seem that his family was super supportive. Sounds to me like quite a dominating, bourgeois family of intellectuals who had clear views of what should become of their child, and he didn't quite agree. But of course, I could be wrong, but that's the impression I get from reading those things.Stephen Hawking was born on January 8, 1942, in Oxford, England, to Frank and Isobel Hawking. His father was a medical researcher. He belonged to a family of well educated people. His mother was one of the first female students to have graduated from the Oxford University.
Hawking was born when his family as well as the whole nation was going through a financial crunch because of the ongoing World war II. He was the eldest of the four children.
His father became the head of the Division of Parasitology at the National Institute of Medical Research and went to Africa for research. He wanted him to become a doctor, but Hawking seemed more interested in astronomy.
He attended St. Albans School, but he was never a brilliant student. He was more interested in what happened outside the classroom, and spent his time and energy in inventing new things.
Later, against his father’s wishes, he planned to pursue mathematics as his major but as the subject was not taught in Oxford University at the time, he had to take up physics and chemistry instead.
He still did not pay too much attention to the bookish things and spent his time devising innovative techniques. In 1962, he graduated with honors, and went on to attend the University of Cambridge for a Ph.D. in cosmology.
During his first year, Hawking started to show abnormal physical symptoms; he would suddenly trip and fall, and his speech slurred. He initially suppressed these symptoms, but when his father noticed it, he was sent for a series of tests.
It was diagnosed that he was in the early stages of Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, which meant that the part of his nervous system responsible for muscle control was shutting down — a life threatening condition.
With this new found realization of the suddenness of death and the fact that he had only two more years to live, Hawking started concentrating fully on his research work.
What do you reckon? — Agustino
Yes, I would say so I think.religious, heterosexual guy — Bitter Crank
Interesting. Why do you reckon I am fairly formal? :Psociable but fairly formal (guessing about that) — Bitter Crank
In certain periods of life yes, in others no. When I was first diagnosed with GAD, hypochondria, and OCD in my late teens, I was definitely not resilient. I mean I'd worry almost continuously about something, ruminate, etc. As a child, I don't remember being very resilient, when I couldn't do something I'd quit quite easily - my parents had to push me. I would say that now I am fairly resilient, though not very resilient. There's a lot of space to improve.that you have been, so far, quite "resilient" — Bitter Crank
But is this resilience an inborn thing, or something you develop? Because my experience is that you develop this resilience with time. I certainly had periods in life when I was not resilient. Isn't this also your own experience? I remember you saying that you're a lot more resilient now, a lot calmer, centred, etc. than you were as a young man. So certainly you must have learned something that allowed you to develop this resilience and self-control over time, no?Your resilience allows you to believe that you have successfully sorted out the mind from the nervous system (a flat-out impossibility, IMHO). — Bitter Crank
Yes! I have definitely observed this. It is very subtle, and I am sure that certain things I am not aware of. But, for example, sometimes after working a lot continuously, at night I just pace the room and don't feel like going to bed. But I don't actually feel stressed consciously. So it takes some practice and awareness to realise that I actually am stressed in those moments, even though I don't feel stressed on a conscious level. As I become aware of it, I start noticing more clues that suggest that I am stressed.But most of our mind is not conscious and is largely invisible to the conscious mind. — Bitter Crank
That is probably so, but is there no alteration of the unconscious from the conscious as well as the other way around? I would say there is - the conscious mind can also shape the unconscious to some extent. For example, when I pace the room and I become aware that I feel stressed, then I might try some mindfulness or prayer, slowly trying to quiet the chattering and restlessness of the mind. And I start releasing muscle tension, which I didn't even know was there before, etc. etc. It does seem that the conscious is able to explore the unconscious and even alter it to a certain extent.Indeed, our conscious mind is probably the creation of our unconscious mind, which is actually running things. — Bitter Crank
:lol: We say that that kind of cheese is from the peasant's pants here. But yes, see, these are other scenarios where the conscious mind can come to have control over the unconscious to some extent.We can learn to suppress psychophysical responses, though. For instance, limburger cheese used to be quite popular in the upper midwest of the US. It's an inordinately earthy, smelly, creamy cheese. It reminds me of the aroma of a dairy barn (which I consider pleasant but definitely "earthy"). Most people find the odor of this cheese revolting and disgusting. It tastes good in a sandwich of rye bread, a sweet onion, liver sausage (braunsweiger), and this limburger cheese. Add beer for an extra plus. I learned to get it past my nose (and lips), suppress the gag reflex, and finally sort of like it. — Bitter Crank
What exactly do you mean?I don't think we can do something comparable with our minds. — Bitter Crank
c) accept pressure and stress as part of the game.
— Benkei
Can you expand more on what you mean here please? — Agustino
Right, I see. Yes, that's definitely bad, but I think it emerges from a psychological weakness - to call it so - where we look up to what others are doing to help us determine what we ourselves should be doing. I would personally never do that, but I have friends who do it quite constantly...The abusive manager, the bad company culture, the 12 hour workday. It's all part of the game so we accept a lot of shit that has an effect on our happiness because everyone around us expects us to just suck it up. — Benkei
Interesting. Why do you reckon I am fairly formal? — Agustino
GAD, hypochondria, and OCD — Agustino
That is probably so, but is there no alteration of the unconscious from the conscious as well as the other way around? I would say there is - the conscious mind can also shape the unconscious to some extent. — Agustino
Did you give free rein to your emotions because you had studied that one shouldn't bottle up their emotions, or was it more of an instinctive thing?I could rein in my emotions very tightly when necessary, but I tended to give them pretty free rein a good share of the time. One of the theories of mental health (maybe a pop psych idea) is that one shouldn't bottle up one's emotions -- one should let them out. — Bitter Crank
Yes, that is indisputable I think. Breathing, heart rate, metabolism, digestion etc. almost everything is unconscious.But most of the activity is in the unconscious — Bitter Crank
Yeah, it is no doubt that our biology constrains our modes of expression. If we had three hands instead of two, we would also have different potentials than we do today.How the brain operates seems to be, as I said, genetically controlled, because everyone's brain seems to operate the same way--different thoughts for sure, but the same mechanisms of delivering thoughts for expression. — Bitter Crank
Hmmmm, mine bites my hand :lol: - or uses its nose to poke me with it and push me.Or, dogs are pretty similar in the way they invite play from us or from other dogs. — Bitter Crank
I don't think we can do something comparable with our minds. — Bitter Crank
Yes, that is indisputable I think. Breathing, heart rate, metabolism, digestion etc. almost everything is unconscious. — Agustino
I can choose to be conscious of some of the things you mentioned above. But not of my stomach's peristalsis. Just like I cannot be conscious of secreting certain enzymes my body needs for digestion, or generating an immune system response to the flu, etc.You’re conscious of your breathing, your heart’s palpitations, your stomach’s peristalsis etc. — CuddlyHedgehog
It's good to be boring :cool: Wanna try?You just choose to ignore them because they’re so darn boring. — CuddlyHedgehog
Did you give free rein to your emotions because you had studied that one shouldn't bottle up their emotions, or was it more of an instinctive thing? — Agustino
I thought yogis had mastered the art. — CuddlyHedgehog
Yogi's can master the practice of meditation so that they can voluntarily lower their various biological markers of wakefulness (heart rate, respiration, etc.) -- if reports can be believed. — Bitter Crank
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