Most atheists are more sensible than that. I don't think that The New Atheists, for example, or those under their influence, would actually make that claim. They would likely dispute the claim that religions invented morality, and rightly so. And I can't see most people within that sort of group having an attitude reflected in the exclamation "we won't be moral - so take that religious people!". More like, "we reject your presumption of moral authority!" — Sapientia
Darwin’s work is most important and suits my purpose in that it provides a basis in natural science for the historical class struggle… Despite all shortcomings, it is here that, for the first time, “teleology” in natural science is not only dealt a mortal blow but its rational meaning is empirically explained. — Karl Marx
Does what you read, and your interest in philosophy in general carry over to your "everyday life"? — anonymous66
Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit.
I'm a bit wary of psychological explanations especially when they're used to explain away positions that I don't agree with (they often appear more convincing then they should be). — shmik
Which often results in moral relativism or nihilism... — Thorongil
How many atheists are unabashed moral realists? I honestly doubt there's that many. — Thorongil
Meta-ethics: moral realism 56.4%; moral anti-realism 27.7%; other 15.9%.
God: atheism 72.8%; theism 14.6%; other 12.6%. — shmik
I think I'd class them as philosophers too, though they didn't pursue it thoroughly and decided to change the world instead. — jamalrob
There's a fantastic book about Marx specifically as a philosopher: Karl Marx by Allen W. Wood. It's very clear, and it's critical but broadly sympathetic. It's sort of like Eagleton's Why Marx was Right with philosophical meat on the bones (I seem to recall you saying you read that). — jamalrob
I find most of the new atheists are engaged in 'straw God' arguments - they take what is the most caricatured version of the idea, namely that of young-earth creationists and reactionary fundamentalism, as being what is meant by 'God'. I never believed in the kind of God that they say doesn't exist, but I still don't consider myself atheist (although many of my Christian forbears might consider me to be that.) — Wayfarer
I have nothing good to say about the New Atheist movement.I find most of the new atheists are engaged in 'straw God' arguments - they take what is the most caricatured version of the idea, namely that of young-earth creationists and reactionary fundamentalism, as being what is meant by 'God'. I never believed in the kind of God that they say doesn't exist, but I still don't consider myself atheist (although many of my Christian forbears might consider me to be that.) — Wayfarer
I did talk honestly about my real-world experiences. I did meet some very vocal atheists who do see morality in a twisted way such that I don't know how they could strive for any kind of moral excellence. Also see my post where I mention Chris Hedges and the New Atheist movement. - From what I know and experienced of the New Atheist movement, I don't want anything to do with them. It's just fundamentalism, but for atheists.No. No it isn't. That is the attitude of a small minority. Most atheists are more sensible than that. I don't think that The New Atheists, for example, or those under their influence, would actually make that claim. They would likely dispute the claim that religions invented morality, and rightly so. And I can't see most people within that sort of group having an attitude reflected in the exclamation "we won't be moral - so take that religious people!". More like, "we reject your presumption of moral authority!" — Sapientia
I did talk honestly about my real-world experiences. I did meet some very vocal atheists who do see morality in a twisted way such that I don't know how they could strive for any kind of moral excellence. Also see my post where I mention Chris Hedges and the New Atheist movement. - From what I know and experienced of the New Atheist movement, I don't want anything to do with them. It's just fundamentalism, but for atheists. — anonymous66
I'd like to meet someone who is an atheist, and who shares my conviction that morality is objective. I do know of some atheist philosophers who argue in defense of objective morality, so that's a good start.Anyway, I tried various denominations until about 3 years ago, at which time I started calling myself an atheist, and started looking for other atheists to hang out with. The ones I met were just too anti-religion for my taste. I'm also not impressed with the way that the atheists I've met approach morality- which looks to me very much like "religions invented morality, we don't like religions, and we won't be moral- so take that religious people!". I've since decided that the atheists who hang out in groups with "atheist" in the title of said group, aren't the type of people I want to spend much time with. (that's been my experience with the few groups I've spent time with... your mileage may vary). — anonymous66
I'd like to meet someone who is an atheist, and who shares my conviction that morality is objective. I do know of some atheist philosophers who argue in defense of objective morality, so that's a good start. — anonymous66
I am not trying to "blow my own horn" here, but everything seems a lot less personal, less petty and more rational with my philosophical mindset. — Mustapha Mond
I find most of the new atheists are engaged in 'straw God' arguments - they take what is the most caricatured version of the idea, namely that of young-earth creationists and reactionary fundamentalism, as being what is meant by 'God' — Wayfarer
I don't think that that's a fair criticism, since they often take care to clarify who they're targeting and why. They're not 'staw God' arguments if you misapply them. — Sapientia
What Dawkins does too often is to concentrate his attack on fundamentalists. But there are many believers who are just not fundamentalists. Fundamentalism is another problem. I mean, Dawkins in a way is almost a fundamentalist himself, of another kind. 1 — Peter Higgs
They don't take any care whatever. — Wayfarer
What Dawkins does too often is to concentrate his attack on fundamentalists. But there are many believers who are just not fundamentalists. Fundamentalism is another problem. I mean, Dawkins in a way is almost a fundamentalist himself, of another kind. 1 — Peter Higgs
Does what you read, and your interest in philosophy in general carry over to your "everyday life"? — anonymous66
I have no problem thinking of New Atheists as being atheist fundamentalists. — anonymous66
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