They already are. People in the region have demanded military assistance to drive out ISIS and Assad for a long time now. — Thorongil
It seems to me you are just shooting from the hip talking about how you feel and not suggesting any realistic course of action. — m-theory
And it seems you're an ignoramus who's trying way too hard to sound clever and ironic. I don't like conversing with you, as I said before, because it's utterly unproductive. So don't expect to see any more replies from me. — Thorongil
Absolutely. — Thorongil
Maybe we actually learned something from Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan (not sure we did, though). It's one thing to smash the state; it's something else to create a civil society out of the chaos — Bitter Crank
I do understand where your coming from, but one question is still in my mind...
... can we actually identify the "underlying problem" without causing even more problems in the process? — Mayor of Simpleton
True, but why is that worrisome to you? I'm asking earnestly. Is it because you encounter frustration in your quest to understand current events? Or just that propaganda irritates you? Or what?I saw the Bosnia example mentioned and it fits for me. It's one of those terms though that could be subject to, shall we say, strategic deployment. — Baden
I was trying to understand what that point was.The fact that he would consider the invasion and occupation of Iraq as "absolutely" a humanitarian military intervention makes my point. — Baden
The problem in Syria does not stem from geopolitics. I'm sure you realize that. It's a direct result of social instability that can be laid at Assad's door. He left his country vulnerable to invasion by fomenting unrest. A humanitarian intervention would remove Assad from power. No country in the world is going to take on that mission, though. What we're basically going to do is turn our backs on our brothers and sisters in Syria. This is what you have to consider when you condemn humanitarian military intervention. Turning away is fucking bitter.And, yes, it is extremely frustrating to try to untangle what the best thing to do in Syria would be, and what would constitute a humanitarian intervention as opposed to a strategic one where Russia, Iran, the US, Saudi Arabia and co. are just playing geopolitics with the locals' lives. — Baden
I was trying to understand what that point was — Mongrel
The problem in Syria does not stem from geopolitics. — Mongrel
A humanitarian intervention would remove Assad from power. No country in the world is going to take on that mission, though. What we're basically going to do is turn our backs on our brothers and sisters in Syria. This is what you have to consider when you condemn humanitarian military intervention. Turning away is fucking bitter. — Mongrel
Remove Assad, how? . — Baden
I see. It's deception that bothers you.What I'm condemning is the use of the term to cover strategic maneuvering that results in a worse humanitarian crisis than there was to begin with. As was the case with Iraq. — Baden
And here is where I need for you to stop and reflect. You're making this about the crimes of the West and your frustration.Not now, not simply because major geopolitical foes of the US are responsible, not simply to give the false impression that America and its allies have grown a conscience. This is a face that should have been burned into the mind of everyone with the remotest scintilla of imagination and empathy from the beginning. — Baden
You are diverting attention from the victim. — Mongrel
You say humanitarian military intervention and the deposing of Assad. — Baden
Tell me how the Shia population would accept a government by the Sunni? Tell me how democracy would spring from the cesspool of ideology there? Outline your plan — Baden
I hate writing "That's not what I said." — Mongrel
I have no plan there, but I spent about six months last year reading several books about contemporary Islamic issues and how they're rooted in the histories of the various Islamic communities in the world. The view of some Islamic scholars is that Islam has a natural affinity for democracy and would flourish in secular societies. The bonus is that a secular government would resolve a quagmire surrounding Sharia. — Mongrel
Again I say: you're diverting attention from the victim. That kid probably needs stitches. Where are his parents? Who is making a list of survivors so people can find their relatives? Do they need money? — Mongrel
I thought we were talking about the macro issue here of humanitarian military intervention not the specifics of how to help this particular child. In other words, solving the "underlying problem" that Benkei alluded to in the OP. — Baden
The face of that child linked to in Benkei's post is a face I have been seeing for the past 15 years. — Baden
I didn't need CNN or the Guardian to show it to me now like it's something new,... — Baden
So...
... Are we being informed or are we being lead or something else?
Is this media a service or an industry or something else? — Mayor of Simpleton
"The media" mostly lead us into the wilderness of images where we get lost. — Bitter Crank
why worry about solving problems abroad when you couldn't defend your own home if you had to? — Mongrel
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